Scriptural support for universal morality
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15-01-2016, 04:42 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(15-01-2016 02:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 10:18 AM)DerFish Wrote:  Let me ask you Pop goes the weirdo Can you name anything that cannot be proved with scripture? anything at all? These people claiming that NASA never got to the moon were using Babble verses in their arguments!
Woe! That's wild. I don't know if there are things that are verifiable or not verifiable by scripture. That's a good question. I guess you could give an example.

Fermat's last theorem. Drinking Beverage

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15-01-2016, 04:57 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(15-01-2016 02:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 10:18 AM)DerFish Wrote:  Let me ask you Pop goes the weirdo Can you name anything that cannot be proved with scripture? anything at all? These people claiming that NASA never got to the moon were using Babble verses in their arguments!
Woe! That's wild. I don't know if there are things that are verifiable or not verifiable by scripture. That's a good question. I guess you could give an example.

Maybe skip over to the other thread and clue us in to which of the genealogies of Joseph you believe in, or do you believe both of them, or do you believe Luke was lying when he says that is Joseph's line he is following instead of Mary's like everybody now pretends they believe. I unlike you do know that there are things that are not verifiable by the Bible and that includes everything in the world. Or in the universe if we want to be more expansive.
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15-01-2016, 05:58 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(15-01-2016 03:54 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It's not a random shuffling of traits.

Facepalm

Quote:They are generally all the same. Mutations are a fact. Perhaps they are equally positive and negative. The fact that the beneficial ones cancel out the negative ones over time is not random.

That does not coalesce into anything meaningful. I have no clue what you think you are trying to say.

Quote: If there was no mutation whatsoever then there would be no potential for positive change, or change at all for that matter.

Good thing we aren't talking about cases where nothing changes then.

Quote: It isn't the mutation that I'm focusing on. I'm looking at the whole thing.

So am I, but to understand evolution you have to understand the mechanisms that introduce change as well as the process that determines whether those changes survive or not. Genetic shuffling is random and forms the base for changes. Survival is affected by random environmental events. Everywhere you look there is randomness affecting the formation and development of organisms.

Quote:Even what you say is random isn't.

Except that it is.

Quote:Surely it is a variable that is subject to change. Just because a piece of something seems somewhat random, that doesn't make evolution random, at all.

Randomness is at the core of evolution. The random differences are what natural selection works with. We are the result of many trillions of random events.

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15-01-2016, 09:25 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(15-01-2016 04:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No, I would just like for you to be specific, so maybe I can be too.

I was quite specific. I am not doing your work for you.

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15-01-2016, 10:26 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(15-01-2016 03:54 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 07:32 AM)unfogged Wrote:  That makes no sense. Transcript errors, cross-overs, and inversions are random events that take place at the genetic level. They have been studied extensively.


That makes no sense either. Every germ cell has a random shuffling of genetic material. Which of the sperm cells merges with which egg cell is random. If the "mutation" is beneficial then that organism is more likely to have offspring which increases the number of occurrences in the population which increases the likelihood that it will be passed on to even more organisms.
It's not a random shuffling of traits.

Except meiosis is largely random.

Quote:They are generally all the same.

What are all the same?

Quote:Mutations are a fact. Perhaps they are equally positive and negative.

No, most are neutral or deleterious.

Quote:The fact that the beneficial ones cancel out the negative ones over time is not random.

Nothing is cancelled out. Facepalm

Quote:If there was no mutation whatsoever then there would be no potential for positive change, or change at all for that matter. It isn't the mutation that I'm focusing on. I'm looking at the whole thing. Even what you say is random isn't.

Mutations are, in fact, random.

Quote:Surely it is a variable that is subject to change.

What variable are you referring to?

Quote:Just because a piece of something seems somewhat random, that doesn't make evolution random, at all.

What do you think is not random?

That populations change to suit conditions does not make the changes non-random.
What changes occur is utterly random; what changes are retained is what selection is about. However, that does not negate the inherent randomness of the changes.

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16-01-2016, 04:41 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
The mutations are random. Then those random mutations are tested against the environment, and mutations that are neutral or helpful are more likely to be passed on. This pressures exerted on the population, whereupon mutations and the changes they bring are tested against, are the selective pressure. Mutations are random, but which ones succeed and are kept is not. That is the 'selection' part of Darwin's natural selection.

There you go, fucking middle school level Biology 101 for you. Drinking Beverage

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16-01-2016, 05:02 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(15-01-2016 04:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-01-2016 02:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Woe! That's wild. I don't know if there are things that are verifiable or not verifiable by scripture. That's a good question. I guess you could give an example.

Fermat's last theorem. Drinking Beverage


Keep it simple Girly, remember who you're dealing with.


Perhaps start with the pythagorean theorem and move up from there? Wink

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16-01-2016, 06:49 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
Blah blah blah blah blah............

If you think your religion is the only one to claim to be patent holder of humans morality, you'd be wrong.

Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists........ ect ect ect ect all do it.

When I hear anyone of religion arguing for their club it sounds exactly like Charlie Brown talking to his teacher.

Whaa whaaa whaaa whaaa whaaa whaa "Jesus"
Whaa whaa whaa whaaa whaaa whaa "Allah"
Whaa whaa whaa whaa whaa whaa "Yahweh"
Whaa whaaa whaa whaaa whaa whaa "Vishnu"
Whaa whaa whaa whaaa whaa whaa "Buddha"

Get in line, take a number.

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16-01-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 02:23 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Many here have heard me rant about the selfless conscience, God head, God helm, Christ consciousness, Krishna consciousness, and other terms that I claim are a reference to the holy spirit, and the conscience that all have to one degree or another. I will start by quoting scriptures of differing religions that pertain to such. This in no way will be a definitive, full, example of all findings. Just a start.

I look forward to questions, comments, and rebuttals that refute my findings. Thank you all for allowing this. I hope I placed this topic in the right section.
Peace.

Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
14: For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one anotherWink
16: In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
17: Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18: And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19: And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20: An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
21: Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22: Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23: Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
24: For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25: For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26: Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? Romans 2 (KJV) - ሮሜ
27: And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This next one doesn't specifically state anything about the conscience, but does speak of violence not being right in any form making it relevant to my argument on universal morality.


And they (i.e. the heathen) shall be cast into the judgement of fire,
And shall perish in wrath and in grievous judgement for ever.

10. And the righteous shall arise from their sleep,
And wisdom shall arise and be given unto them.

[11. And after that the roots of unrighteousness shall be cut off, and the sinners shall be destroyed by the sword . . . shall be cut off from the blasphemers in every place, and those who plan violence and those who commit blasphemy shall perish by the sword.]

18. And now I tell you, my sons, and show you
The paths of righteousness and the paths of violence.
Yea, I will show them to you again
That ye may know what will come to pass.

19. And now, hearken unto me, my sons,
And walk in the paths of righteousness,
And walk not in the paths of violence;
For all who walk in the paths of unrighteousness shall perish for ever.'

Book of Enoch xci

More to do with unity of Faith and not division.

Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
1: But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2: And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
3: And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4: But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
5: For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
6: In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
7: And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
8: And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.
9: Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail.
10: Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies. Micah 4 (KJV) - ሚክያስ
11: Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.
12: But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.
13: Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.

More on violence;

Jonah 3 (KJV) - ዮናስ
1: And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
2: Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
3: So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey. Jonah 3 (KJV) - ዮናስ
4: And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5: So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6: For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. Jonah 3 (KJV) - ዮናስ
7: And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Jonah 3 (KJV) - ዮናስ
9: Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10: And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Proclamation of one God and prophesy of John the Baptist; ← 03 – Iušamin23 – The Pitfall of Impure Women →
22 – A Proclamation of War in the World (John Predicts the Coming of Muhammad)
Posted on February 6, 2012 by James F. McGrath
John teaches in the nights,
John in the evenings of the nights.
John teaches in the nights:
“A proclamation of war in the world.”
and he says,

“Oh, they come standing in evil.
Buy a way for yourselves!
Oh, they come practicing usury.
Buy a way for yourselves!
Oh, they come lying in fragrant wreaths
Buy a way for yourselves!
Oh, they come dressing in roses and silk !
Buy a way for yourselves!
Oh, they come lying down in flattery [literally “in beauty of face”]
Buy a way for yourselves!

Because the chosen and righteous sons rise up (and leave earth),
the voice of life will not draw near in the world.
Sacramental meals/masses will be offered,
Without putting on a clean turban.
Living baptism will be performed,
Without the transcendent/sublime sign”
When John said these things, Joseph and Benjamin spoke, and Miriai said to John in Jerusalem,
“I adjure you, John, by the Life that you worship
After that, I adjure you, John, by the dawn of the day whose name is dear
Will chosen and righteous sons rise up (= depart the world),
and the voice of Life not draw near in the world?
Will sacramental meals/masses be offered
without putting on a clean turban?
Will a living baptism performed
without the sublime/transcendent sign?”

When she said these things, (Jacob and Benjamin and) Mariai,
John said to them in Jerusalem
“When all the priests are slain and will be no more
And the sons of Israel are slain,
Ahmed the Arab son of Arbuia son of divorce son of Arbuia Samuel son of the bondwoman of Abdullah will be born
He calls to the world
He removes all Mandaean places of worship,
and mosques increase in the world
He removes stability (or orthodox institutions) and peace,
and deception and sin increase in the world
He removes weddings and invitations
He removes faith from the world
He joins to ritual uncleanness,
he does not diminish (it).
No bell sounds in the world, and they do not ring
All the sons of the lie, of falsehood, of wickedness in the world
commit adultery – they commit adultery and they steal
They practice usury
and they give one and take nine
They falsify their scales
they increase their measure
some of them fornicate their heads
Some of them loose their hair
some of them loose their hair
some of them dye their beards with henna
some of them dye their beards with henna
and they stand up and degrade their mosques.
When they see a man putting on a girdle [of the characteristic sort worn by Mandaean priests]
Their whole body/stature is clothed in great sickness.
They stand questioning and they say, “Who is your prophet ?
Tell us, who is your prophet?
And tell us, Which is your Scripture ?
Tell us, which is your Scripture ?
and tell us whom you worship.”
They do not know and they do not understand.
(They are) accursed and disgraceful.
They do not know and they do not understand.
Our Lord, the King of Light on high,
He is ONE.

Life is victorious

I will return later to post more and answer questions. Note; what I have posted thus far is out of notes I have attained over the past few months. Just a start really.

Thanks for reading

Peace

Why would we care what a story book has to say about morality?

Universality is a product of how we form concepts. It is a result of abstraction or measurement ommission. Moral principles are conceptual in nature. The universality of objective moral principals a result of the open ended nature of concepts.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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16-01-2016, 11:40 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(16-01-2016 06:49 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Blah blah blah blah blah............

If you think your religion is the only one to claim to be patent holder of humans morality, you'd be wrong.

Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists........ ect ect ect ect all do it.

When I hear anyone of religion arguing for their club it sounds exactly like Charlie Brown talking to his teacher.

Whaa whaaa whaaa whaaa whaaa whaa "Jesus"
Whaa whaa whaa whaaa whaaa whaa "Allah"
Whaa whaa whaa whaa whaa whaa "Yahweh"
Whaa whaaa whaa whaaa whaa whaa "Vishnu"
Whaa whaa whaa whaaa whaa whaa "Buddha"

Get in line, take a number.
It would behoove you to actually read prior to making assumptions such as the one you make in suggesting that I divide the one creator GOD into a different force for each different Faith. What a ridiculous concept.
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