Scriptural support for universal morality
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12-01-2016, 07:37 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 07:19 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You're on a fool's errand, pops.
Before you quote the Babble to us, first, you must establish it's veracity and authority.
You simply don't have the background to even begin that task,

He's better off just presenting his anecdotal experience. I'd stipulate scriptural support for universal morality since that is what the majority of religions preach. Don't mean dick.

#sigh
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12-01-2016, 07:54 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 06:20 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm not going to be definitively proving anything here.

You don't need to definitively prove anything. You need to provide some sort of evidence to make you claims sound credible.

Quote:The fact that learned or wise men from before written history to now have made it there life's work to make things known to others that to them seemed of the utmost importance, in all they did is something.

Yes, but it doesn't mean they were right. Cherry-picking things that agree with your philosophy is kind of pointless because you can pick scriptural quotes to justify all sorts of things.

Quote: You actually call it part of evolution.

No, I suggested that might be an answer to where it came from. I try not to make claims that I can't demonstrate have some backing. I see evidence for evolution; I see many social species; I see the reasoning for how altruistic tendencies could evolve; I see things like mirror neurons which provide a physiological basis for it. All of that tells me that natural processes can explain how so many people come to similar philosophies and that seems to be the best explanation we have so far. I hear claims that there is some kind of god behind it all but, as has been said before, I see no need of that hypothesis.

Quote: I can get on board with that. Indeed it is a natural process. Life trying to better its chances of continued survival.

You need to stop anthropomorphizing "life". There is no evidence that anything is actively trying to better its chances under the theory of evolution.

Quote: So if the natural instinct or drive to continue life in the most beneficial way is indeed a part of our very existence, then isn't that proof of life striving to exist?

I think you are conflating the individual, the species, and the biosphere. Individuals may be said to strive to exist although that may be more of an outside perspective on it. Species and "life" don't strive for anything. Shit happens.

Quote:What I'm trying to say is that nature and the coarse of all existence, to me, was all set in motion by a creative force on some level.

Even if I granted everything you've said about striving to exist there is nothing that supports the idea that there was a creative force to start it all. That may be an option but we do not have evidence for that. You are using a god of the gaps to fill a hole in our knowledge.

Quote:If that were the case then it helps to explain this trait that can be seen from all walks of life and in most socially efficient species.

Proposing a sufficient answer to a question does not tell you that it is necessarily the correct answer. If I come home and my garbage cans are knocked over I can guess that my neighbor could have done it so that explains it. It answers the question of how they got knocked over but without actual evidence it is just a guess. If there was a creative force then it would explain a lot of things but without evidence it is just a guess.

Quote:Of course the amount that it is readily observed is actively thwarted by an opposing force(greed) in humans.

I see no evidence that humans are qualitatively different in that than other species.

Quote:Just my opinion, and quite possibly hard to decipher.

You've been relatively clear today. There's just still no reason to think any of your ideas are on solid footing.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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12-01-2016, 08:56 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
"Universal morality" is kind of an anal retentive stick up the butt that fundie religionists have. It's easily debunked. Every culture on the planet has at least one of it's own ethical systems. I'd venture to bet that Pops has never even taken ONE academic course in Ethics or Anthropology.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-01-2016, 09:28 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
Cherrypicking is when one take a single verse or sentence out of context to fix into a claim. Perhaps to have noticed that I am posting entire chapters or the like. Not really cherry picking. There are hundreds more. If I was cherry picking then that wouldn't be the case.

As far as using an observation to make a theory is concerned; that s what's is Don i n the scientific comunirt as well. None of it is proven except for the readily observable parts that are disected or reverse engineered. The rest is indeed theory.
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12-01-2016, 09:36 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
I have to admit... Watching most things where Pop's is involved is like watching a train wreck in motion.

Take the last post as compared to Pop's first post.

Things just fall apart as Pops puts more and more onto the forum.

No
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12-01-2016, 09:44 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 06:33 PM)cactus Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 06:26 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I have many versions. The one that is easiest for me to copy/paste from is that one. I'm working on that. I prefer older versions due to the fact that initial meaning can be lost by attempting to modernize the texts. I'm actually interested in learning Hebrew. It's supposed to be quite poetic and may bring at least a little less misdirection. Actually though; the texts aren't too full of contradictions. It's the false teachers that are mostly responsible for the hypocrisy and misdirection.

What's your criteria for discerning a false teacher?
There are a few. Most stem out of greed and pride. Examples would be a person who says one thing but does another, a hypocrite, bigot, one that condemns others while secretly not living by the same judgment that they dole out. Often times people brought up in traditional organized religion may seem t have step by Faith in God, but after further inquiry you find that they are very divisive when it comes to other faiths.

A real example might be an individual that believes whole heartedly that Jesus is and always has been utterly equivalent to the One Creator GOD. This belief in itself has its own flaws, but the obvious sign of the false teacher in this case would be the deviation from what is actually taught in scripture, and the quickness they display in judging others who ent believe the exact same thing. In scripture it says that Christ is the way to GOD, not GOD in and of itself. Generally a false teacher will have high levels of spite for any who question or disagree with their doctrine. Since one of only two commands in the bible for gentiles is to love thy neighbor as you love yourself, its a dead giveaway. Another one actor would be the persons instant willingness to condemn and belittle another, also opposed to the actual teachings of Christ and the prophets whom all state to show mercy and not to judge with false scales, in that words judge all equally as you yourself wish to be judged.
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12-01-2016, 09:54 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 06:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 02:23 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  This next one doesn't specifically state anything about the conscience, but does speak of violence not being right in any form making it relevant to my argument on universal morality.

Why do you and others like Tomasia feel the need for a universal morality? Why isn't individual ethical responsibility adequate? It is for Girly.
I don't feel the need for anything. It's just been made really obvious to me.
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12-01-2016, 09:55 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
Note: this is not addressing the original poster. Pops, I am not engaging you, so please don't reply to this post.

But a question to the group: If the morality is indeed objective, shouldn't god be bound by it also? God seems to be incapable of stepping out of his own morality in some other circumstances--for example, god doesn't seem able to say to Adam's children, you aren't sinners, even though your parents were.

Another example: "Thou shalt not kill"--there is not qualification there, so does that mean that god also should not be killing?

Of note, this is only the Christian tradition being quoted, so it is not in any way universal.
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12-01-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 09:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 06:33 PM)cactus Wrote:  What's your criteria for discerning a false teacher?
Examples would be a person who says one thing but does another, a hypocrite, bigot, one that condemns others while secretly not living by the same judgment that they dole out.
So... Yahweh, basically Popcorn

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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12-01-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 06:45 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 06:21 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You imply that they are wholly different. They are not.

There's no difference between Islam, Christianity or Mormonism?

So where is the commandment in the Quran to observe the Sabbath?

Is it objectively moral to observe the Sabbath or isn't it?

Your failure to acknowledge the differences demonstrates your failure to understand religion in general.
I didn't say they were exactly the same in all ways now did I?

Sabbath is for man. Islam prays twice a day and has its own rituals. I never sad anything about the rituals. Just the general similarities.
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