Scriptural support for universal morality
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12-01-2016, 09:59 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
Do you include the Hadith in your list of divine scriptures?

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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12-01-2016, 10:02 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 06:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So much for your "objective" morality bullshit.


1 Samuel 15

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ”

4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim—two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand men from Judah. 5 Saul went to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the ravine. 6 Then he said to the Kenites, “Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.

7 Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, to the east of Egypt. 8 He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

10 Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel: 11 “I am grieved that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was troubled, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

12 Early in the morning Samuel got up and went to meet Saul, but he was told, “Saul has gone to Carmel. There he has set up a monument in his own honor and has turned and gone on down to Gilgal.”

13 When Samuel reached him, Saul said, “The LORD bless you! I have carried out the LORD’s instructions.”

14 But Samuel said, “What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears? What is this lowing of cattle that I hear?”

15 Saul answered, “The soldiers brought them from the Amalekites; they spared the best of the sheep and cattle to sacrifice to the LORD your God, but we totally destroyed the rest.”

16 “Stop!” Samuel said to Saul. “Let me tell you what the LORD said to me last night.”
“Tell me,” Saul replied.

17 Samuel said, “Although you were once small in your own eyes, did you not become the head of the tribes of Israel? The LORD anointed you king over Israel. 18 And he sent you on a mission, saying, ‘Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.’ 19 Why did you not obey the LORD ? Why did you pounce on the plunder and do evil in the eyes of the LORD ?”

20 “But I did obey the LORD,” Saul said. “I went on the mission the LORD assigned me. I completely destroyed the Amalekites and brought back Agag their king. 21 The soldiers took sheep and cattle from the plunder, the best of what was devoted to God, in order to sacrifice them to the LORD your God at Gilgal.”

22 But Samuel replied:
“Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD ?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD,
he has rejected you as king.”

24 Then Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned. I violated the LORD’s command and your instructions. I was afraid of the people and so I gave in to them. 25 Now I beg you, forgive my sin and come back with me, so that I may worship the LORD.”

26 But Samuel said to him, “I will not go back with you. You have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you as king over Israel!”

27 As Samuel turned to leave, Saul caught hold of the hem of his robe, and it tore. 28 Samuel said to him, “The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today and has given it to one of your neighbors—to one better than you. 29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind.”

30 Saul replied, “I have sinned. But please honor me before the elders of my people and before Israel; come back with me, so that I may worship the LORD your God.” 31 So Samuel went back with Saul, and Saul worshiped the LORD.

32 Then Samuel said, “Bring me Agag king of the Amalekites.”
Agag came to him confidently, thinking, “Surely the bitterness of death is past.”

33 But Samuel said,
“As your sword has made women childless,
so will your mother be childless among women.”
And Samuel put Agag to death before the LORD at Gilgal.

34 Then Samuel left for Ramah, but Saul went up to his home in Gibeah of Saul. 35 Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the LORD was grieved that he had made Saul king over Israel.

King James Version

3Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
I've been over this before.

The Jews were punished for a really long time. This s because they mislead the people. It clearly states in the bible that they did not follow the narrow path. Their interpretation of the word of God d not correct in some ways, namely sacrifice of another life for your own sins, and violence.
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12-01-2016, 10:06 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 10:02 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Their interpretation of the word of God d not correct in some ways, namely sacrifice of another life for your own sins, and violence.
So by "not correct," you mean not in-line with your subjective opinion?

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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12-01-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 09:56 PM)cactus Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 09:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Examples would be a person who says one thing but does another, a hypocrite, bigot, one that condemns others while secretly not living by the same judgment that they dole out.
So... Yahweh, basically Popcorn
Not really talking about YHWY. I'm talking about man. YHWY isn't a man. A predestined natural occurrence such as the volcano or meteorite that destroyed Sodom and surrounding towns doesn't really classify as murder.

mur·der

ˈmərdər/

noun

1.

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Since some of you seem to be confused.
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12-01-2016, 10:12 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 09:59 PM)cactus Wrote:  Do you include the Hadith in your list of divine scriptures?
No. I try to stick to core scriptures. The exception is the book of Enoch. I will eventually study other religious texts but for now I am sticking to the core texts as a basis for telling what religions are actually of the twelve tribes, or actually faithful to God. In order for me to do that I cannot deviate from core scripture. That would be like basing the truth of Christianity on the words of a hypocrite. Not very accurate.
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12-01-2016, 10:13 PM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 10:06 PM)cactus Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 10:02 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Their interpretation of the word of God d not correct in some ways, namely sacrifice of another life for your own sins, and violence.
So by "not correct," you mean not in-line with your subjective opinion?
I mean not in line with other peaceable scriptures
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12-01-2016, 10:21 PM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2016 10:47 PM by cactus.)
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 10:09 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Not really talking about YHWY. I'm talking about man. YHWY isn't a man. A predestined natural occurrence such as the volcano or meteorite that destroyed Sodom and surrounding towns doesn't really classify as murder.

mur·der

ˈmərdər/

noun

1.

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Since some of you seem to be confused.

That definition of murder uses the term "human" because humans have been demonstrated to exist, and because they have a uniquely high level of understanding with regard to the implications of their actions. If sentient gods were demonstrably real, I have no doubt the common definition of murder would apply to them, too.

Using a word other than "human" in order to cover the possibility for non-corporeal sapient beings would be completely unnecessary and counterproductive.
It would be like saying:
Quote:Banana - noun
a long curved fruit that grows in clusters, has soft pulpy flesh and yellow skin when ripe, and doesn't explode into a 2km wide fireball upon consumption.

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13-01-2016, 05:42 AM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2016 06:31 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 10:02 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I've been over this before.

The Jews were punished for a really long time. This s because they mislead the people. It clearly states in the bible that they did not follow the narrow path. Their interpretation of the word of God d not correct in some ways, namely sacrifice of another life for your own sins, and violence.

But that's EXACTLY the morality found in your stupid Babble. YOUR god REQUIRED the violent sacrifice of his son for the sins of his people. Your premise is destroyed by that alone. There is no objective morality, and none AT ALL shown in your idiot Babble.

Now get lost, and go get some help. You are literally insane, as well as one of THE most ignorant fools ever to post on TTA. You know NOTHING about scripture, religion, ethics, philosophy or the history of the Jews.

If your stupid god EVEN ONCE was said to approve violence, then your idiot point is REFUTED. Your god approved violence COUNTLESS times. There is no morality at all evident in the Bible. At all. Much less an "objective" one evident there. You don't even know what the words "objective morality" even mean.

BTW pops, you can't even write ONE correct sentence in the English language. Go get an education, and tell your stupid god to send someone who is up to communicating with educated adults. You are not.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-01-2016, 05:46 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
[Voltaire, "Epîtres, XCVI"[/

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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13-01-2016, 06:24 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(12-01-2016 09:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Cherrypicking is when one take a single verse or sentence out of context to fix into a claim. Perhaps to have noticed that I am posting entire chapters or the like. Not really cherry picking. There are hundreds more. If I was cherry picking then that wouldn't be the case.

Sorry, cherry-picking isn't limited to sentences. It refers to any case of taking bits and pieces that support your ideas and ignoring parts that do not. You can find verses, chapters, and even whole books in the bible that generally support a decent ethical system. You can also find others that are barbaric. You are ignoring the whole and focusing on parts that you agree with and that is cherry-picking.

Quote:As far as using an observation to make a theory is concerned; that s what's is Don i n the scientific comunirt as well. None of it is proven except for the readily observable parts that are disected or reverse engineered. The rest is indeed theory.

Theory, in science, is a hypothesis that is backed up by a great deal of evidence. Noting commonalities between scriptures may be sufficient to propose a hypothesis that there is a common cause for that similarity. At that point you must investigate to find evidence that leads to that cause and evidence that demonstrates that the cause exists. You jump right over all the difficult parts and go from "I see some similarities" to "god did it".

(12-01-2016 09:56 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Islam prays twice a day and has its own rituals. I never sad anything about the rituals. Just the general similarities.

5 times a day, not twice. If you don't have even the basics right how can you evaluation be even considered? You talk about general similarities and ignore the differences because you want desperately to find a commonality between the various religions. That's more cherry-picking.

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