Scriptural support for universal morality
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14-01-2016, 12:47 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(13-01-2016 10:11 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  BG Chapter: 6
Shloka 28

VERSE:

TRANSLATION:
Thus the self-controlled yogi, constantly engaged in yoga practice, becomes free from all material contamination and achieves the highest stage of perfect happiness in transcendental loving service to the Lord.

That doesn't sound familiar at all.

Jeremiah 10 (KJV) - ኤርምያስ
14: Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.
15: They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
16: The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name. Jeremiah 10 (KJV) - ኤርምያስ
17: Gather up thy wares out of the land, O inhabitant of the fortress.
18: For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this once, and will distress them, that they may find it so.
19: Woe is me for my hurt! my wound is grievous: but I said, Truly this is a grief, and I must bear it. Jeremiah 10 (KJV) - ኤርምያስ
20: My tabernacle is spoiled, and all my cords are broken: my children are gone forth of me, and they are not: there is none to stretch forth my tent any more, and to set up my curtains.
21: For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
22: Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons. Jeremiah 10 (KJV) - ኤርምያስ
23: O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
24: O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.

Hebrews 8 (KJV) - እብራውያን
10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Definitely speaking of isreal, as in all people, all tribes, definitely speaking of the selfless conscience, and universal morality.

Hebrews 8 (KJV) - እብራውያን
13: In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
1: Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2: For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

Speaking of the flaw of the Jewish law at first glance and forgiveness, but is also about first being saved or realization of the One Creator GOD, the way, the light, and then speaks of the second veil lifted or truth shown which is purity, freedom from sin. Of God wholly or of the Holy Spirit fully.

Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
3: And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4: Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5: And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
6: Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7: But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
9: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10: Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11: But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13: For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
14: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15: And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
16: For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17: For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18: Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
19: For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20: Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
19: For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20: Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
21: Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22: And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23: It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
24: For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26: For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9 (KJV) - እብራውያን
27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 10 (KJV) - እብራውያን
1: For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2: For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. Hebrews 10 (KJV) - እብራውያን
3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4: For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Hebrews 10 (KJV) - እብራውያን
6: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7: Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8: Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Hebrews 10 (KJV) - እብራውያን
9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11: And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: Hebrews 10 (KJV) - እብራውያን
12: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13: From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14: For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15: Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, Hebrews 10 (KJV) - እብራውያን
16: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17: And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18: Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19: Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, Hebrews 10 (KJV) - እብራውያን
20: By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21: And having an high priest over the house of God;
22: Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Hebrews 10 (KJV) - እብራውያን
23: Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promisedWink
24: And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


Yeah definitely not talking about universal morality, or the conscience, or the misdirection of organized religion at all.

Maybe I'll move to the Bhagavad Gita for a little while.

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

Denis Diderot

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14-01-2016, 01:11 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
Right, so is there anyone left who doesn't think pops is either a poe or a deranged pile of nonsensical bullshit?

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14-01-2016, 01:40 AM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2016 03:49 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(13-01-2016 09:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 01:29 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  None of this nor the next post answers how you determine what is core? How you trust who determines what is core and to what basis on that evaluation? How do you decide where Enoch, book of Judas, John the Baptist texts, etc. Are or are not the same equivelent as you determine others. And why you would determine things that verge differently like writings of Revelation & pauls writings. Or John in significant contrast to the other 3 Gospels.

You proclaim to accept these things as core because...? If you were in Ethiopia or Tunisia your responses are likely different if you're from central Europe or US. It's also going to be different if you're from Utah or Mississippi. So how do you come to determine what is core?
You still seem to think I'm talking about organized religion. I'm not. The determining factors are if it is peaceable or divides faithful. And if it promotes violence or not. If it promotes prejudice or equality.

The only things I have read that are from core scriptures are things in parenthesis, brackets, and crucifixes. Even then, many times it is truly an attempt to explain a point in the verse, but is also the means of which division, pride, greed, and violence are attempted to be justified. When I find such I study it and the context from which it was applied.

So far the Torah by far has the most contradiction in it. Reluctantly I have come to begin to understand the breadth of the manipulation that has been taught as the inerrant word of Yahweh. So when people go off about the misdirection and condoned violence and sacrifice in the OT I can understand it to some extent. Even in the Torah though, the amount of profitable doctrine greatly out weighs the negative or otherwise misleading sections.

I review scripture from many faiths so I'm not speaking of anything but the books that are recognized as scriptures to those faiths, and not writings or books that stem from them.

I don't know how else to put it.

You can put it simpler... as in how do you determine what those books are. What those scriptures are that are recognized and how you recognize if your evaluation of them is relevant, especially in your languages.

Your describing a process that wouldn't lead to a healthy lifestyle if you used it elsewhere. You have an agenda view, in something about peaceful/positivity(from your perspective which is another thing you don't seem to get & can't answer how you determine or refuse to for some reason) So if you take this agenda and scan texts from it, and then you will have a mental lens that can be flawed and miss real data but you're so agenda filled you missed reality.

So what fuels this classification that you use that if it agrees with you, you accept it as more real/more pure than others?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-01-2016, 02:35 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 01:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, so is there anyone left who doesn't think pops is either a poe or a deranged pile of nonsensical bullshit?

Having only just seen people mentioning the 'POE" aspect of the postings....

Lock in door number two, Eddie.

The language style changes such that... it's either an individual with.. issues...

Or we're being visited by a group/couple of folks with too much time on their hands.

Or, none of the above? *Shrug*
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14-01-2016, 04:00 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
Go away POE.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-01-2016, 06:24 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 01:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, so is there anyone left who doesn't think pops is either a poe or a deranged pile of nonsensical bullshit?

He's indulging in confirmation bias to the point of it resembling a mental issue.

The term fixed fantasy seems to describe his issues pretty well:

A fixed fantasy — also known as a "dysfunctional schema" — is a belief or system of beliefs held by a single individual to be genuine, but that cannot be verified in reality. The term is typically applied to individuals suffering from some type of psychiatric dysregulation, most often a personality disorder.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-01-2016, 07:25 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(13-01-2016 09:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yes he did cause the destruction of a wholly bent people that had turned from the right path who sinned in every conceivable way. You say he could have stopped it. I say people could have turns from their sin as repeatedly advised. They didn't believe the word of GOD. Their destruction, like many other cases of destruction of a wholly wrong doing people could have easily been averted, and was a lesson for future generations as well as a better chance for those who weren't destroyed.

If he created something that did not behave the way he wanted then whose fault is that? The while story is simply ridiculous. If nothing else, he could have poofed them out of existence, or made them infertile, or made them no longer want to "sin" but instead he chose to kill them all by drowning or by disease or by other violent, painful ends (depending on which story you pick). You can't reasonably claim that making them no longer want to sin would violate their free will when the alternative is to kill them outright. Either ends their free will. This god of yours just chose the most dickish ways possible to accomplish his goals.

Quote:It's funny how people will excuse death of entire species as acts of nature that are simply the way it is, but when a natural disaster happens they wanna act like there is some bad guy. There is no difference.

Actually, atheists don't believe there is a "bad guy" behind either extinctions or natural disasters. Both are simply natural events with no intent or intelligent agent behind them. Neither is excused because there is nothing to excuse. It's when theists claim that there is a god controlling these events that we point out that if that were true then he is is an incompetent, evil jackass. Thankfully there is no evidence that anything like that exists.

Quote:Evolution and nature are by GOD.

Prove it. Provide ANY evidence for it.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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14-01-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(14-01-2016 06:24 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(14-01-2016 01:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, so is there anyone left who doesn't think pops is either a poe or a deranged pile of nonsensical bullshit?

He's indulging in confirmation bias to the point of it resembling a mental issue.

The term fixed fantasy seems to describe his issues pretty well:

A fixed fantasy — also known as a "dysfunctional schema" — is a belief or system of beliefs held by a single individual to be genuine, but that cannot be verified in reality. The term is typically applied to individuals suffering from some type of psychiatric dysregulation, most often a personality disorder.

That sure sounds like Pops. I really do mean it when I say that I think he needs help.

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14-01-2016, 07:40 AM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2016 12:28 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(13-01-2016 11:41 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 10:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Your OP is nonsense. You can't even begin to support it. There is no argument for it. It's all BS. This is an atheist forum. We don't buy your crap here.
Peddle it somewhere else.

Unless you have some proof for this violent idiot god of yours, you can stop wasting your time.
Why don't you contribute something of worth?

Prove evolution is random.

You don't even know what those words mean.
There is nothing about Evolution that needs additional support at this point. That statement, yet again, demonstrates your complete ignorance of both math and science. EVERY major accredited university in the world teaches it. (Of course, a university education is not something you are familiar with).

So. No proofs for your idiot violent god then ?

Interesting though, that even YOU think this thread is SO stupid and worthless, there is nothing anyone can say that will improve or support your false OP, and all you got is that old knee-jerk line about Evolution.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-01-2016, 08:24 AM
RE: Scriptural support for universal morality
(13-01-2016 11:52 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 11:41 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Why don't you contribute something of worth?

Prove evolution is random.

Blink

Facepalm

(13-01-2016 11:41 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Why don't you contribute something of worth?

Prove evolution is random.

So (Professionals please correct my simplistic errors etc) any sexual reproduction results in RANDOM shuffling/copying of the genetic material from both parents.

Hence the offspring being oh so slightly different/varied from said parents.

This is RANDOM.

It's these teeny, tiny little changes that over a very, very... (Add LOTS of very's here)... amount of time, with the interaction of the surrounding environmental pressures etc which result in both changes to species, new species happening up and too whole new species coming about.

I hope I came close to a good explanation for a blue collar worker. Blush

My point still stands though Pops. The shuffling of genes from parents to offspring is the RANDOM aspect of evolution.
Mutations are random.

The probability of beneficial mutation surviving and being reproduced through offspring is not random.

Sorry try again.
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