Scripture Twisting - Isaiah 7:14 (virgin birth)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
27-02-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Isaiah 7:14 (virgin birth)
(27-02-2016 05:24 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Yes on both accounts. King Ahaz most certainly told G-d to suck it. Tongue

What's so special about that? There's whole threads here dedicated to doing just that... Wink

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
27-02-2016, 05:32 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Isaiah 7:14 (virgin birth)
(27-02-2016 05:28 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(27-02-2016 05:24 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Yes on both accounts. King Ahaz most certainly told G-d to suck it. Tongue

What's so special about that? There's whole threads here dedicated to doing just that... Wink

Laugh out loadLaugh out load

Yeah, but do any of you have children who know right from wrong?

Check mate, EvolutionKills!

Behold, the power of G-d.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2016, 06:27 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Isaiah 7:14 (virgin birth)
(27-02-2016 05:32 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(27-02-2016 05:28 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  What's so special about that? There's whole threads here dedicated to doing just that... Wink

Laugh out loadLaugh out load

Yeah, but do any of you have children who know right from wrong?

Check mate, EvolutionKills!

Behold, the power of G-d.

No, I don't have kids. But I imagine that teaching them the difference between two subjective states isn't that hard. Rolleyes

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2016, 06:56 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Isaiah 7:14 (virgin birth)
(26-02-2016 11:57 AM)Aliza Wrote:  This subject was brought up in another thread, but I thought it deserved its own thread and stand-alone discussion. If you ever find yourself in a debate with a Christian over theological matters, I sincerely hope this information can be of use to you.

The basis for which Christens use to “prove” the “miraculous” nature of Jesus’s birth comes from the book of Isaiah –a Jewish book that has an entirely different meaning for the Jewish people. The KJV version speaks of a virgin who will be pregnant in the future. The JP version speaks of a young woman who is already pregnant at the time the book was written. Both Christians and Jews agree that the Hebrew Bible is the original source for all translations used today, yet we manage to have different translations of the same Hebrew text.

KJV - Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Judaica Press – Isaiah 7:14 Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sigh; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.

Below is a clip from a Christian website, Scripture4all.org, where Christian translators who have tried to render a true-to-the-text translation of the Hebrew.
Note that the English translation in this clip says that a young woman is already pregnant, and not that a virgin shall conceive at some future point in time.

[Image: Isaiah%207.14_zpsax53sw6p.jpg]

The primary argument with Isaiah 7:14 boils down to the tense of the pregnancy (whether this is present tense, or future tense), and the sexual status of the woman in question. In separate posts, I will address each of the following topics that are used to debunk the virgin birth story as being foretold prophecy from the Hebrew Bible.

1. What if it really does say “virgin” and not “young woman”?
2. The prophecy was to be fulfilled within a period of a few years, not within 700 years.
3. Scriptural evidence shows that Christians seem to understand in other places that the Hebrew word for virgin is “betula” and not “almah,” which means young woman and is the word used in this passage.
4. Almah is used in other parts of the bible to describe an adulteress and a rape victim.
5. The Septuagint is commonly used by Christians to show that the ancient Jewish understanding of the word did include "virgin," but the Septuagint is not a Jewish document and cannot be used to validate the Christian translation.

What's weird to me, he claims he has an actual, formal education in this, yet it is clearly the wrong interpretation.

He's so emotionally invested in it, he can't bring himself to evaluate it from a detached analytical perspective.

This goes for the entire book of Isaiah, how much can you distort this book and everything it says?

It's pretty simple stuff, Isaiah's prophecies pertain to the time they were written in, nothing more. And one should be very wary of reading too much into a verse when Isaiah starts talking about Israel as a person.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like TheInquisition's post
01-03-2016, 09:22 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Isaiah 7:14 (virgin birth)
Point 2) To be fulfilled properly, the prophecy had to be fulfilled while Immanuel was still a child.

The purpose of this prophecy is to give a sign to King Ahaz. It’s to be fulfilled within the timeframe that it takes for a child to learn right from wrong. Within this period of time, King Ahaz will win this battle.

But Jesus wasn’t born until 700 years later. If this prophecy is about Jesus, then how would the birth if Jesus (cast in the role of Immanuel) be of any use to King Ahaz? How could Isaiah have been talking about Jesus if Jesus's birth (miraculous or mundane) cannot possibly fulfill the very purpose for making the prophecy in the first place, which is to serve as a sign to King Ahaz?

This is just from the plain reading of the text.

Point 3) Scriptural evidence shows that Christians seem to understand that the word for virgin is “betula” and not “almah”

The word “almah” means young woman, and not virgin. I did a simple search for the word “virgin” on a Christian bible website. The picture below reflects a sampling of the instances that I found. As we see in the picture below, aside from Isaiah 7:14, every other place where the word “virgin” appears in the Christian bible is sourced from the word “Betula” (or bethula). What is it that warrants Isaiah 7:14 to be an exception?

I pulled scripture quotes in the attached image from website “scripture4all.org”. It is a Christian sourced translation, and the translators apparently had to concede that the word cannot be properly translated to mean “virgin.” I have taken note that newer editions of the Christian bibles do occasionally translate this word as “young woman” or “damsel” if they’re trying to be vague. Take a good look at this; it really paints a very clear picture of the scripture twisting that has been done in Isaiah 7:14.

It's also worth noting that Isaiah uses the word “virgin” in other places, so clearly if he wanted to portray the young woman in question as a virgin, then he had the vocabulary to do so. He deliberately called her a young woman.


[Image: attachment.php?aid=3044]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Aliza's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: