Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
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21-02-2016, 07:38 PM
Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
This stunning specimen of scripture twisting was provided to me today in an effort to demonstrate to me how I’ve clearly missed the obvious descriptions of Jesus in my own bible. You can see very clearly that the KJV version (especially when taken out of context from the surrounding text) renders a translation that deliberately draws a false parallel to the Christian story of Jesus. If you are a Christian, then how do you accept this level of inaccuracy in the translation of your bible?

KJV
Zachariah 12:10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Sounds like it's referring to Jesus, right? It's not. Dodgy Below is the translation rendered directly from the original Hebrew. This passage is about the Jewish people expressing their sorrow over the those who, in the days immediately preceding the messianic era, will die when the enemies of the Jews come up against Jerusalem. This is not about Jesus at all.

JPS
Zachariah 12:10But I will fill the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem with a spirit of pity and compassion; and they shall lament to Me about those who are slain, wailing over them as over a favorite son and showing bitter grief as over a first-born.


Hebrew Text in case you're curious:

יוְשָׁפַכְתִּי עַל בֵּית דָּוִיד וְעַל | יוֹשֵׁב יְרוּשָׁלַםִ רוּחַ חֵן וְתַחֲנוּנִים וְהִבִּיטוּ אֵלַי אֵת אֲשֶׁר דָּקָרוּ וְסָפְדוּ עָלָיו כְּמִסְפֵּד עַל הַיָּחִיד וְהָמֵר עָלָיו כְּהָמֵר עַל הַבְּכוֹר:

יאבַּיּוֹם הַהוּא יִגְדַּל הַמִּסְפֵּד בִּירוּשָׁלִַם כְּמִסְפַּד הֲדַדְרִמּוֹן בְּבִקְעַת מְגִדּוֹן:
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21-02-2016, 08:21 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
So I'm then I'm wondering how accurate the Hebrew text that we can read today is compared to the original script that was written by old Zach himself back in the day. Consider

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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21-02-2016, 08:25 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(21-02-2016 08:21 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So I'm then I'm wondering how accurate the Hebrew text that we can read today is compared to the original script that was written by old Zach himself back in the day. Consider

Good enough that Christian bibles that do happen to provide the Hebrew use the same Hebrew that's in the Jewish versions. They just put it alongside the KJV that was translated in the early 1600's.
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21-02-2016, 08:51 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
Couldn't have been Jesus.
There was no Jesus.
They conflated a number of messiah tales and figures.
For example, today the Christian church recounts the tale of the "transfiguration". It's told as an historical event. Not only could it not ever have happened, but it's suffused with theological content from a much much later period. Jesus was an invention, from at least many decades, if not centuries later.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-02-2016, 08:55 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
That's fucking interesting. So they include an "accurate" reading in the original language right along side the inaccurate translation and nobody seems to be alarmed. I mean, I know that christians are selectively lazy thinkers, but come on.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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21-02-2016, 09:35 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(21-02-2016 07:38 PM)Aliza Wrote:  This stunning specimen of scripture twisting was provided to me today in an effort to demonstrate to me how I’ve clearly missed the obvious descriptions of Jesus in my own bible. You can see very clearly that the KJV version (especially when taken out of context from the surrounding text) renders a translation that deliberately draws a false parallel to the Christian story of Jesus. If you are a Christian, then how do you accept this level of inaccuracy in the translation of your bible?

KJV
Zachariah 12:10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Sounds like it's referring to Jesus, right? It's not. Dodgy Below is the translation rendered directly from the original Hebrew. This passage is about the Jewish people expressing their sorrow over the those who, in the days immediately preceding the messianic era, will die when the enemies of the Jews come up against Jerusalem. This is not about Jesus at all.

JPS
Zachariah 12:10But I will fill the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem with a spirit of pity and compassion; and they shall lament to Me about those who are slain, wailing over them as over a favorite son and showing bitter grief as over a first-born.


Hebrew Text in case you're curious:

יוְשָׁפַכְתִּי עַל בֵּית דָּוִיד וְעַל | יוֹשֵׁב יְרוּשָׁלַםִ רוּחַ חֵן וְתַחֲנוּנִים וְהִבִּיטוּ אֵלַי אֵת אֲשֶׁר דָּקָרוּ וְסָפְדוּ עָלָיו כְּמִסְפֵּד עַל הַיָּחִיד וְהָמֵר עָלָיו כְּהָמֵר עַל הַבְּכוֹר:

יאבַּיּוֹם הַהוּא יִגְדַּל הַמִּסְפֵּד בִּירוּשָׁלִַם כְּמִסְפַּד הֲדַדְרִמּוֹן בְּבִקְעַת מְגִדּוֹן:

Yep, every one of these alleged "prophecies" are a mistranslated verse, they simply plug Jesus into whatever scripture they want and then proclaim it's a prophecy of the coming messiah.

Isaiah 53 is the Christian's favorite mistranslation, where it is talking about Israel as the suffering servant.

The forum's tool Q actually thinks that god turning the Nile from blood to water was a "type and shadow" that had double meaning as god sacrificing his son Jesus. Facepalm

This is some of the stupidest crap I've ever heard.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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21-02-2016, 09:37 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
And this has to do with actual reality, how?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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21-02-2016, 09:44 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
Glad you pointed that out Aliza. You should do an entire thread of mistranslations, I’d be very interested in reading it.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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21-02-2016, 09:47 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(21-02-2016 09:44 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Glad you pointed that out Aliza. You should do an entire thread of mistranslations, I’d be very interested in reading it.

There are hundreds. But yeah, I'd be happy to post up a few more. Big Grin
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21-02-2016, 09:57 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(21-02-2016 09:37 PM)Banjo Wrote:  And this has to do with actual reality, how?

Well Banjo, there are people who actually are Christians. Many of them have doubts about the threats that their pastors make to them, but the biblical evidence presented seems like valid prophecy. In reality, some people were not raised atheist or secular, so biblical evidence has merit with them.

My interest in posting this is was to hopefully help someone who has been told every day that Jesus thinks that they're horrible sinners who have no hope for the future without him. What if pointing out the glaring flaws in their Christian scripture can help open their minds to new possibilities?
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