Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
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21-02-2016, 10:04 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(21-02-2016 09:57 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(21-02-2016 09:37 PM)Banjo Wrote:  And this has to do with actual reality, how?

Well Banjo, there are people who actually are Christians. Many of them have doubts about the threats that their pastors make to them, but the biblical evidence presented seems like valid prophecy. In reality, some people were not raised atheist or secular, so biblical evidence has merit with them.

My interest in posting this is was to hopefully help someone who has been told every day that Jesus thinks that they're horrible sinners who have no hope for the future without him. What if pointing out the glaring flaws in their Christian scripture can help open their minds to new possibilities?

Yeah I get it. I argued with theists for 30+ years. Just giving you a hard time.

I'm an Aussie. This is what we do.

OI OI OI! Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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21-02-2016, 10:41 PM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
This was awesome Aliza.

Thanks!


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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22-02-2016, 12:43 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
Um. Is it possible to get an academic source for some of these things? I'd love to poke some of my FB friends with a certified mistranslation like this but if I point them to a forum post they'll just laugh at me and say you're lying Sadcryface Actually I'll google it myself. Surely someone must have documented it...

Incidentally scriptural twister sounds like a fun game for bored religous teens, and maybe get some of that Jesus sexy time going too Yes

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-02-2016, 10:28 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
Thank you Aliza I'd be very interested in seeing more too. I love learning and getting to the truth no matter where that leads. Off soap box now lol
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22-02-2016, 10:32 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(21-02-2016 08:55 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  That's fucking interesting. So they include an "accurate" reading in the original language right along side the inaccurate translation and nobody seems to be alarmed. I mean, I know that christians are selectively lazy thinkers, but come on.

But what percentage of English speaking folks are able to read Hebrew? Cannot be even near .1 per cent!
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22-02-2016, 10:37 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(22-02-2016 10:32 AM)DerFish Wrote:  
(21-02-2016 08:55 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  That's fucking interesting. So they include an "accurate" reading in the original language right along side the inaccurate translation and nobody seems to be alarmed. I mean, I know that christians are selectively lazy thinkers, but come on.

But what percentage of English speaking folks are able to read Hebrew? Cannot be even near .1 per cent!

Yes but they can Google it. OK I know I know too lazy or just don't want to know the truth.
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22-02-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(22-02-2016 12:43 AM)morondog Wrote:  Um. Is it possible to get an academic source for some of these things? I'd love to poke some of my FB friends with a certified mistranslation like this but if I point them to a forum post they'll just laugh at me and say you're lying Sadcryface Actually I'll google it myself. Surely someone must have documented it...

Oh, you said “academic” sources. I missed that key word there on my first read-through. I can source my information, but I can’t necessarily do it academically. As a religious person, my sources tend to be religious in nature and not secularly academic.

But that might be part of the problem with the secular approach to reaching out to Christians. Christians don't care what the secular world has to say. They want to know what G-d says. I know it's not what you asked for, but I can try to build a case as to why Jesus didn't fulfil this prophesy using the bible as my primary source.

Would this be okay?
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22-02-2016, 10:58 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
Hey Aliza can you post the accurate Isaiah chapter 53 from the Hebrew and how it compares with the mistranslated Christian bible version ? The suffering servant is about Israel , it's NOT about Jesus. I watched some rabbi tovia singer debates with messianic Jews and Christians. It's impressive how rabbi Tovia singer owns or served them.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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22-02-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(22-02-2016 10:58 AM)Leo Wrote:  Hey Aliza can you post the accurate Isaiah chapter 53 from the Hebrew and how it compares with the mistranslated Christian bible version ? The suffering servant is about Israel , it's NOT about Jesus. I watched some rabbi tovia singer debates with messianic Jews and Christians. It's impressive how rabbi Tovia singer owns or served them.

I've had a conversation about Isaiah 53 in the past. Let me know if this is what you're looking for. The scriptural comparison here is between the Judaica Press translation and the NASB (Christian) translation.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid875974
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22-02-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Scripture Twisting - Zechariah 12
(22-02-2016 11:09 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 10:58 AM)Leo Wrote:  Hey Aliza can you post the accurate Isaiah chapter 53 from the Hebrew and how it compares with the mistranslated Christian bible version ? The suffering servant is about Israel , it's NOT about Jesus. I watched some rabbi tovia singer debates with messianic Jews and Christians. It's impressive how rabbi Tovia singer owns or served them.

I've had a conversation about Isaiah 53 in the past. Let me know if this is what you're looking for. The scriptural comparison here is between the Judaica Press translation and the NASB (Christian) translation.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid875974

I saw that thread, it was good. A little off topic here but I do have a question for you about the break between Chapter 52 and 53. It always struck me as odd when I was younger that chapter 52 ends with a few sentences that seemed tacked on and would be better placed in Chapter 53.

The Suffering Servant
13 See, my servant shall prosper;
he shall be exalted and lifted up,
and shall be very high.
14 Just as there were many who were astonished at him
—so marred was his appearance, beyond human semblance,
and his form beyond that of mortals—
15 so he shall startle many nations;
kings shall shut their mouths because of him;
for that which had not been told them they shall see,
and that which they had not heard they shall contemplate.

After I learned about when the chapter and verses were added to the bible it made so much more sense why the break was made where it was. It only makes sense when you look at it as the nation of Israel as the "HE" and not a man which really changes the perspective on Isaiah 53 had it been included in it. I figured that they were broken apart to make 53 look so much more like it was talking about Jesus. So my question is if I were to go to a synagogue and ask to see Isaiah, how is it written in a traditional Jewish text? I assume the chapters and verses are different than a christian text. And in light of what was brought up earlier, how do you know that the author of Zachariah did write it exactly as you did? We have no originals.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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