Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
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11-12-2012, 12:37 PM
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
(11-12-2012 12:33 PM)kim Wrote:  Convergent evolution just describes the acquisition of the same biological trait in unrelated lineages. It's more a useful fashion than anything. Like Bats. Bats are mammals with skin like webbing between appendages, which helps them navigate in the air. Bats are in no way related to birds. They're bodies are entirely different - they don't even speak to each other. I love them both, but in different ways.

DNA has really upped the ante with reclassification. I think it's great. Thumbsup The greater accuracy means better research which will in turn create more accurate probabilities when studying environments.


I love snakes... they're really quite clean... and anything that will eat a rodent is ok in my book. Wink
That's fine and good, Kim, but please don't derail my topic. This topic is about Erxomai's penis.

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11-12-2012, 01:02 PM
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
(11-12-2012 12:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 12:33 PM)kim Wrote:  Convergent evolution just describes the acquisition of the same biological trait in unrelated lineages. It's more a useful fashion than anything. Like Bats. Bats are mammals with skin like webbing between appendages, which helps them navigate in the air. Bats are in no way related to birds. They're bodies are entirely different - they don't even speak to each other. I love them both, but in different ways.

DNA has really upped the ante with reclassification. I think it's great. Thumbsup The greater accuracy means better research which will in turn create more accurate probabilities when studying environments.


I love snakes... they're really quite clean... and anything that will eat a rodent is ok in my book. Wink
That's fine and good, Kim, but please don't derail my topic. This topic is about Erxomai's penis.
Well this is gonna be a short conversation then... I'll show myself out.

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11-12-2012, 03:19 PM
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
I'm confused.

They had a similar ancestor at some point. They're both snakes: Order squamata - Suborder serpentes. They're both in the same family: Hydrophiinae. But way more confusing is that while they've been renamed Enhydrina schistosa and Enhydrina zweifeli, they're still the same genus: Enhydrina. So how distant can they be? I'm very confused.

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Matt
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11-12-2012, 04:18 PM
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
Some genera possess great variability among species. And, these 2 species were wrongly considered to be the same species due to convergent evolution. In fact, what the biologists discovered is that, within the same genus, these 2 species are actually not closely related.

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11-12-2012, 04:32 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2012 04:35 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
(11-12-2012 03:19 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I'm confused.

They had a similar ancestor at some point. They're both snakes: Order squamata - Suborder serpentes. They're both in the same family: Hydrophiinae. But way more confusing is that while they've been renamed Enhydrina schistosa and Enhydrina zweifeli, they're still the same genus: Enhydrina. So how distant can they be? I'm very confused.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

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Which comes from http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notroc...Me02v29KSP

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11-12-2012, 04:42 PM
Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
(11-12-2012 01:02 PM)lucradis Wrote:  
(11-12-2012 12:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  That's fine and good, Kim, but please don't derail my topic. This topic is about Erxomai's penis.
Well this is gonna be a short conversation then... I'll show myself out.

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11-12-2012, 06:10 PM
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
Thank you, Tia and Cantor.

That chart is great. Do does that mean that all of the branches in that chart reside in the same genus? Can someone decipher those branches for me? I still find it confusing because Hydrophis is it's own genus, no?

I'm not shitting on convergent evolution. I'm cool with that. Bat wings and pterodactyl wings and all that. I'm just confused as all hell about this snake. I don't understand where the split occurred. It just seems like a case of genetic drift and speciation to me, but it would seem that I'm talking out of my ass Cool

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11-12-2012, 06:27 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2012 06:53 PM by tiagorod84.)
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
(11-12-2012 06:10 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Thank you, Tia and Cantor.

That chart is great. Do does that mean that all of the branches in that chart reside in the same genus? Can someone decipher those branches for me? I still find it confusing because Hydrophis is it's own genus, no?

I'm not shitting on convergent evolution. I'm cool with that. Bat wings and pterodactyl wings and all that. I'm just confused as all hell about this snake. I don't understand where the split occurred. It just seems like a case of genetic drift and speciation to me, but it would seem that I'm talking out of my ass Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
In the link provided by houseofcantor, they say that these sea snakes should all be classified as belonging to the Hydrophis genus. Their taxonomy should be revised. So what you see is the phylogenetic tree of the Hydrophis genus.

So the divergence of those 2 species occured earlier in the emergence of this genus, but because they end up sharing similar habitats, natural selection favoured the same phenotype (adpatations), i.e. convergent evolution.

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11-12-2012, 11:22 PM
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
Hey, Tia.

Soooo, they aren't classified as the same genus currently, but they should? Is that it?

So they're all just different species of the same genus?

Ifthey're all in the same genus, why are people shocked that two species within the genus share traits? I don't get how traits are seen to develop independently if they're all cut from the same cloth. Blink

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Matt
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11-12-2012, 11:34 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2012 11:50 PM by tiagorod84.)
RE: Sea Snakes: Convergent Evolution
(11-12-2012 11:22 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Tia.

Soooo, they aren't classified as the same genus currently, but they should? Is that it?

So they're all just different species of the same genus?

Ifthey're all in the same genus, why are people shocked that two species within the genus share traits? I don't get how traits are seen to develop independently if they're all cut from the same cloth. Blink

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Hey Matt

According to that article, I think that yes they should be grouped in the same genus.

I must say that I'm no expert in snakes. But, within the same genus you can have a great amount of morphological variability, which account for the discrimination of species. I think that the sursprise in this story is that these two varieties of the same species (due to the high morphological resemblance) are not only different species, but also species that are not closely related when you consider the Hydrophis genus. Morphologically Enhydrina schistosa Australia resembles Enhydrina schistosa Sri Lanka, but phylogenetically Enhydrina schistosa Australia is more related to Hydrophis major, i.e. they share a more recent common ancestor.

This shows the power of convergent evolution.

To further understand this, one should know in detail the morphology of snakes, in order to point out the traits that led to the mistaken classification. Sadly, I'm not of great use in the zoology department...


Tiago

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