Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
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18-07-2017, 09:25 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 09:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 08:54 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Could be but NotFred didn't suggest a reasonable cap of CEO pay. Something that I'm not necessarily opposed to. The suggestion was to cap CEO pay and some ridiculously low level based on the lowest earning employee. The CEO is the leader of the company. With very few exceptions they should make more than any of the other employees.

I would agree. I am with Girly on that. I agree with notfred's point not his standard. Personally.

Why not? They fuck us over with crooked legislation all the time. They support anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden. But when it's proposed that we take what's rightfully ours it's like no that won't work. What doesn't work is this bullshit we're living in right now. There's a thousand millions in a billion. Think what a billionaire is. A millionaire a THOUSAND times over. Should we take it from him? Fuck yes. If you made $50,000 a year it would take 20,000 years to make a billion dollars.
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18-07-2017, 09:46 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 01:26 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 01:22 PM)ImFred Wrote:  He shouldn't be expecting people to live on under $27,000 then. That does seem fair, actually.

So send me some...

27 k is a bit more than twice what I live on....

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18-07-2017, 09:54 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 09:25 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 09:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I would agree. I am with Girly on that. I agree with notfred's point not his standard. Personally.

Why not? They fuck us over with crooked legislation all the time. They support anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden. But when it's proposed that we take what's rightfully ours it's like no that won't work. What doesn't work is this bullshit we're living in right now. There's a thousand millions in a billion. Think what a billionaire is. A millionaire a THOUSAND times over. Should we take it from him? Fuck yes. If you made $50,000 a year it would take 20,000 years to make a billion dollars.

Because as much as I hate that they are fucking us over, I don't really want to vindictively fuck them over in return.

What I want is a system that makes sense and is sustainable long term. I kinda view all of us as culpable in letting them fuck us over so easily, so I don't think only they should be punished if we're gonna punish someone. I am not sure if that makes sense.

Like there's a thread here somewhere "would you piss on your fathers grave" now I have plenty of reasons to piss on my fathers grave, I have plenty of reasons to knock him the fuck out and piss on him while he's still alive. But in the end vindictive doesn't do me any good, nor does it help anyone else. So yea. I just want to fix it and move on.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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18-07-2017, 10:22 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
I'm not saying we should kill them. I'm saying we should disallow this huge disparity. If you want to fix the problem isn't that all about bridging the gap between rich and poor?
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18-07-2017, 10:30 PM (This post was last modified: 18-07-2017 10:35 PM by JesseB.)
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:22 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I'm not saying we should kill them. I'm saying we should disallow this huge disparity. If you want to fix the problem isn't that all about bridging the gap between rich and poor?

I believe some studies have shown most people think 7 times is about fair, not 3. That still closes the gap, in fact it brings it back to where it was during the largest economic growth period in our history as I recall. Like I said on principle I agree with you, I'm just not convinced of the number 3 there. I'd need something a bit more than your arbitrary feelings to really agree with the standard you're setting. It seems potentially too strict in the other direction. I could be wrong, but I'm hesitant to agree until there's more justification for it.

I'll have to dig up the studies

This wasn't what I was looking for but it does have some data and numbers in it, the particularly interesting number is the 20 to 1 ratio of the 60's That would likely be a bit more justifiable than 300 fucking to 1 don't you think? And wouldn't be as extreme as your proposed arbitrary number of 3 to 1

Here

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18-07-2017, 10:37 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 09:25 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 09:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I would agree. I am with Girly on that. I agree with notfred's point not his standard. Personally.

Why not? They fuck us over with crooked legislation all the time. They support anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden. But when it's proposed that we take what's rightfully ours it's like no that won't work. What doesn't work is this bullshit we're living in right now. There's a thousand millions in a billion. Think what a billionaire is. A millionaire a THOUSAND times over. Should we take it from him? Fuck yes. If you made $50,000 a year it would take 20,000 years to make a billion dollars.

ImFred's pretty much got the gist of it right there. I think he's right, this should make me angry. I don't like me when I'm angry.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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18-07-2017, 10:43 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 09:25 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 09:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I would agree. I am with Girly on that. I agree with notfred's point not his standard. Personally.

Why not? They fuck us over with crooked legislation all the time. They support anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden. But when it's proposed that we take what's rightfully ours it's like no that won't work. What doesn't work is this bullshit we're living in right now. There's a thousand millions in a billion. Think what a billionaire is. A millionaire a THOUSAND times over. Should we take it from him? Fuck yes. If you made $50,000 a year it would take 20,000 years to make a billion dollars.

I think you need to separate people who fuck over other people from those that don’t.
Compare Warren Buffet to Donald Trump, both billionaires (or so says Donald). Donald has left a swath of bodies in his wake, well documented he doesn’t pay his contractors and is sue happy. Warren’s story is an open book and is giving away most of his riches to charity.

Anyone, whether ultra wealthy or not, who fucks over others deserves derision and the enmity of all, in many instances like in 2007-9 as an example, a lot of those bankers deserved jail time but none of them did a day. But you are lumping EVERYONE who is financially successful as supporting “anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden”. Similar to when a Bible thumper shows up on the forum and generalizes about every atheist you are guilty of the same thing and not only that but you are also espousing pitchfork mentality. WTF Fred?

And what do you think is “rightfully ours” exactly?

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18-07-2017, 10:44 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:22 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I'm not saying we should kill them.

Share the wealth, eat the rich.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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18-07-2017, 10:46 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 09:25 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Why not? They fuck us over with crooked legislation all the time. They support anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden. But when it's proposed that we take what's rightfully ours it's like no that won't work. What doesn't work is this bullshit we're living in right now. There's a thousand millions in a billion. Think what a billionaire is. A millionaire a THOUSAND times over. Should we take it from him? Fuck yes. If you made $50,000 a year it would take 20,000 years to make a billion dollars.

ImFred's pretty much got the gist of it right there. I think he's right, this should make me angry. I don't like me when I'm angry.

I agree with you, and I think it's important to note, No one works in one lifetime and becomes a billionaire. Specifically to become that wealthy you need to be an owner. that doesn't really necessitate any work (though many owners do work, some quite hard in fact)

I mean you start a business, build it up a little, then sell it for about 20 years worth of it's potential projected profit margin. That's kinda a normal thing if you're an owner as I understand it. So if your business can bring in almost 1 million dollars in profit (which can be achieved easier than you might think especially if you design it to run very lean) you can sell that business for 20 million. You could conceivably accomplish this with little startup capitol in about 5 years with the right idea. Then you take that 20 buy or start other businesses, do the same thing and that's before you get into shady shit like buying businesses and driving them into the ground to avoid paying taxes (like Trump has done).

Like we all work for a living. They just.... kinda don't. They are the owner class, they own us too. And yea no I agree. We should take it back. But once we do I think we need a sensible limitation placed on top income earners. but even that won't solve the problem of the owner class. Their income comes from other means, the only way to solve that is through high capital gains taxes as I understand.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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18-07-2017, 10:47 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:43 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 09:25 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Why not? They fuck us over with crooked legislation all the time. They support anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden. But when it's proposed that we take what's rightfully ours it's like no that won't work. What doesn't work is this bullshit we're living in right now. There's a thousand millions in a billion. Think what a billionaire is. A millionaire a THOUSAND times over. Should we take it from him? Fuck yes. If you made $50,000 a year it would take 20,000 years to make a billion dollars.

I think you need to separate people who fuck over other people from those that don’t.
Compare Warren Buffet to Donald Trump, both billionaires (or so says Donald). Donald has left a swath of bodies in his wake, well documented he doesn’t pay his contractors and is sue happy. Warren’s story is an open book and is giving away most of his riches to charity.

Anyone, whether ultra wealthy or not, who fucks over others deserves derision and the enmity of all, in many instances like in 2007-9 as an example, a lot of those bankers deserved jail time but none of them did a day. But you are lumping EVERYONE who is financially successful as supporting “anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden”. Similar to when a Bible thumper shows up on the forum and generalizes about every atheist you are guilty of the same thing and not only that but you are also espousing pitchfork mentality. WTF Fred?

And what do you think is “rightfully ours” exactly?

[Image: tumblr_inline_ori7wgQeSZ1r2vvwk_400.gif]

I think I heard Warren Buffet supporting higher taxes on the rich too. I could be wrong about this.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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