Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
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18-07-2017, 10:51 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:30 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 10:22 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I'm not saying we should kill them. I'm saying we should disallow this huge disparity. If you want to fix the problem isn't that all about bridging the gap between rich and poor?

I believe some studies have shown most people think 7 times is about fair, not 3. That still closes the gap, in fact it brings it back to where it was during the largest economic growth period in our history as I recall. Like I said on principle I agree with you, I'm just not convinced of the number 3 there. I'd need something a bit more than your arbitrary feelings to really agree with the standard you're setting. It seems potentially too strict in the other direction. I could be wrong, but I'm hesitant to agree until there's more justification for it.

I'll have to dig up the studies

This wasn't what I was looking for but it does have some data and numbers in it, the particularly interesting number is the 20 to 1 ratio of the 60's That would likely be a bit more justifiable than 300 fucking to 1 don't you think? And wouldn't be as extreme as your proposed arbitrary number of 3 to 1

Here

Fuck yeah I would take 7-1 or 20-1! That would be a huge improvement!
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18-07-2017, 10:57 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:43 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 09:25 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Why not? They fuck us over with crooked legislation all the time. They support anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden. But when it's proposed that we take what's rightfully ours it's like no that won't work. What doesn't work is this bullshit we're living in right now. There's a thousand millions in a billion. Think what a billionaire is. A millionaire a THOUSAND times over. Should we take it from him? Fuck yes. If you made $50,000 a year it would take 20,000 years to make a billion dollars.

I think you need to separate people who fuck over other people from those that don’t.
Compare Warren Buffet to Donald Trump, both billionaires (or so says Donald). Donald has left a swath of bodies in his wake, well documented he doesn’t pay his contractors and is sue happy. Warren’s story is an open book and is giving away most of his riches to charity.

Anyone, whether ultra wealthy or not, who fucks over others deserves derision and the enmity of all, in many instances like in 2007-9 as an example, a lot of those bankers deserved jail time but none of them did a day. But you are lumping EVERYONE who is financially successful as supporting “anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden”. Similar to when a Bible thumper shows up on the forum and generalizes about every atheist you are guilty of the same thing and not only that but you are also espousing pitchfork mentality. WTF Fred?

And what do you think is “rightfully ours” exactly?

[Image: tumblr_inline_ori7wgQeSZ1r2vvwk_400.gif]

Food and drink
Shelter
Healthcare
A device and internet
Plus $12,000 Universal Basic Income
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18-07-2017, 11:09 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 10:43 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  And what do you think is “rightfully ours” exactly?

Food and drink
Shelter
Healthcare
A device and internet
Plus $12,000 Universal Basic Income

I think that sounds like an idea worth considering. I think it could work. The $1000 month is just recycling through the economy charging the machine. It's not like they're gonna be socking it away for a rainy day.

#sigh
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19-07-2017, 06:14 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 10:43 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I think you need to separate people who fuck over other people from those that don’t.
Compare Warren Buffet to Donald Trump, both billionaires (or so says Donald). Donald has left a swath of bodies in his wake, well documented he doesn’t pay his contractors and is sue happy. Warren’s story is an open book and is giving away most of his riches to charity.

Anyone, whether ultra wealthy or not, who fucks over others deserves derision and the enmity of all, in many instances like in 2007-9 as an example, a lot of those bankers deserved jail time but none of them did a day. But you are lumping EVERYONE who is financially successful as supporting “anything in their own interest with no concern whatsoever for the downtrodden”. Similar to when a Bible thumper shows up on the forum and generalizes about every atheist you are guilty of the same thing and not only that but you are also espousing pitchfork mentality. WTF Fred?

And what do you think is “rightfully ours” exactly?

[Image: tumblr_inline_ori7wgQeSZ1r2vvwk_400.gif]

Food and drink
Shelter
Healthcare
A device and internet
Plus $12,000 Universal Basic Income

Facepalm
There's the problem......


The future world.

Where everybody sits at home all day, toking up and masturbating to internet porn like a mad monkey who just downed a bottle of Viagra...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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19-07-2017, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2017 06:35 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:47 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I think I heard Warren Buffet supporting higher taxes on the rich too. I could be wrong about this.

It’s called the Buffet Rule. He says it is unfair that his secretary pays a higher % of taxes than he does.

"The Buffett Rule is part of a tax plan proposed by President Barack Obama in 2011. The tax plan would apply a minimum tax rate of 30 percent on individuals making more than one million dollars a year. According to a White House official, the new tax rate would directly affect 0.3 percent of taxpayers.”

Of course, this was never passed and now with Trump he is heading the other way with taxes on the very wealthy.

Edited to add:
”The Buffett Rule was not in the President’s 2012 budget proposal and the White House initially stressed it as a guideline rather than a legislative initiative. The rule, however, was later submitted for deliberation as US Senate Bill S. 2059, Paying a Fair Share Act of 2012. On April 16, 2012, the bill received 51 affirmative votes, but was stopped by a Republican filibuster that required 60 votes to proceed to debate and a vote on final passage.”

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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19-07-2017, 06:26 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
Double post

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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19-07-2017, 06:28 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(19-07-2017 06:26 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 10:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  And what do you think is “rightfully ours” exactly?

Food and drink
Shelter
Healthcare
A device and internet
Plus $12,000 Universal Basic Income

Cool. Who pays for it? Out of who’s pocket does that come out of? Yours? Mine? How many working people are subsidizing each one who gets the above?

You lost me at “A device and internet”. Next I suppose each device has to come loaded with the latest game du jour because what good is a device if you can’t sit fiddling with it all day instead of being gainfully employed (egads!) and carrying your own weight?

There will always be people who are physically and mentally unable to provide for themselves, I get that and I support that the rest of society lend a helping hand with your first 3. The other 2, not so much. Dodgy

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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19-07-2017, 06:56 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(19-07-2017 06:28 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(19-07-2017 06:26 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Food and drink
Shelter
Healthcare
A device and internet
Plus $12,000 Universal Basic Income

Cool. Who pays for it? Out of who’s pocket does that come out of? Yours? Mine? How many working people are subsidizing each one who gets the above?

You lost me at “A device and internet”. Next I suppose each device has to come loaded with the latest game du jour because what good is a device if you can’t sit fiddling with it all day instead of being gainfully employed (egads!) and carrying your own weight?

There will always be people who are physically and mentally unable to provide for themselves, I get that and I support that the rest of society lend a helping hand with your first 3. The other 2, not so much. Dodgy

I don't know that it's so bad. Consider what you can do with a phone/internet vs what you cannot. You can set up a business, market yourself, answer emails, be contactable for job offers. Not having that access in today's world is a genuine handicap.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-07-2017, 07:06 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
Third world countries like India and Bangladesh are working toward full government paid wifi coverage. A chromebook costs like $100. So yeah providing people with access to news, communication, and entertainment is totally doable. Universal Basic Income is coming no matter what. 50 years down the line it will be an untouchable entitlement. It's also going to be worldwide. 83 M people will receive it per trillion dollars. Where do we waste trillions of dollars? Oh yeah, the military! If that doesn't cover it we can stop spending trillions bailing out corporate failures and actually make the rich pay what they should. Won't the NFL and the NBA be proud to support their fans?
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19-07-2017, 07:21 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(19-07-2017 06:56 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(19-07-2017 06:28 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Cool. Who pays for it? Out of who’s pocket does that come out of? Yours? Mine? How many working people are subsidizing each one who gets the above?

You lost me at “A device and internet”. Next I suppose each device has to come loaded with the latest game du jour because what good is a device if you can’t sit fiddling with it all day instead of being gainfully employed (egads!) and carrying your own weight?

There will always be people who are physically and mentally unable to provide for themselves, I get that and I support that the rest of society lend a helping hand with your first 3. The other 2, not so much. Dodgy

I don't know that it's so bad. Consider what you can do with a phone/internet vs what you cannot. You can set up a business, market yourself, answer emails, be contactable for job offers. Not having that access in today's world is a genuine handicap.

True. But I can make the same sort of case for having a car. You can say use public transportation, and I say use a public computer at a library. I suppose there simply isn’t a clear cut line of what is necessary and what isn’t especially when you are asking someone else to pay for it don’t you think?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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