Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
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17-07-2017, 09:29 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'll get flamed for this one -
...

I don't see why. I often get a little disheartened when people are flamed just for showing their ignorance on a subject. I mean, how can one learn without admitting that they don't know something?

(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  ...
but I'll have more fun than Lord Dark Helmet pulling off his spectacular election prediction, in a few years.
...

If a superstructure collapses, it's rare that there's only one cause. If you can demonstrate that a band-aid (like a minimum wage) is the root cause you'll get my applause.

(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  ...
Seattle just decided to become the next Detroit.
...

I don't know the area... is Detroit failing because of the recent increase from $8.50 to $8.90 or because of the lack of foresight to increase it to $12 or $15?

(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  ...
They enacted their boneheaded $15 an hour minimum wage law (read business tax), and now an income tax on higher wage earners. (If minimum wage really worked and didn't spur inflation, how come they have to keep upping it ?- coincidentally around election time).

I guess they want to be able to pay all the welfare, and generous city pensions...
...

The minimum wage is an economic instrument to re-balance away from a destructive Pareto Distribution to a sustainable Normal (bell curve) Distribution. Thus, it should be seen as a temporary governance tool rather than a right.

But it's always interesting to me to see things through the eyes of someone with a strong 'autonomy' ethics framework (belief structure). Here's an alternative view from a business owner with a 'community' ethics framework that might interest you.





(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  ...
That'll be fine - till the big businesses pull out - markets change and the big sources of income dry up and blow away..
...

The recent Labour Party Manifesto has an interesting solution for this: When a business wants to leave the UK, the workers get the option to do a buy-out and if they can't afford it, the government will help fund it (which is a better ROI than just paying unemployment benefit).

I think Germany already has this policy (Deesse23 can correct me if I am incorrect; I know it's happening somewhere in Europe).

Mutuals / Co-operatives can sustain themselves quite nicely... the parasites leave and the symbiotic culture that remains can thrive.

(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  ...
Then the city will cut back on services, the streetlight will go dark, crime will go up - and those that can afford to - will flee for greener pastures.

Just like Detroit.
...

Crime rates strongly correlated to income inequality (as the business owner in the video points out).

(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  ...
I guess if you've got a political bent - you can apply as Emergency Manager.... They'll be needing one in the future....
...

This role has nothing to do with policy/politics. This is a 'Process' role. All organisations (superstructures) should have Continuity Management Plans and a designated Continuity Manager.

Unsure

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17-07-2017, 10:19 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(17-07-2017 09:05 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 08:38 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  They just jumped off the building...

It takes a while. Years..

5 to 20 I'd guess.

But like that first step off the building the ending is pretty predictable..

Except not. You are an idiot I know, brain is rattled from not wearing a helmet. You can say what you want but you have nothing to back it up. I posted actual numbers so kindly go fuck yourself.

That's what ya got - insults...

For the record - in 35 years of riding and three major wrecks - in which of each, I WAS wearing a helmet, I never got a scratch on my head OR the helmet.

So take your juvinile personal insults and jam them up your pompous ass - sideways.


...

As for your "numbers" - you can always expect positive results reporting from the authors and anyone involved with something to gain.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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17-07-2017, 10:24 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
I am not aware of such a policy in Germany. I know howeve that in Spain workers have bought out a company and wre/are running it by themselves. Not without problems in the long run (a kind of "management caste" slowly establishing itself over time).

Quote:That'll be fine - till the big businesses pull out - markets change and the big sources of income dry up and blow away

I think this is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) bogeyman put up by conservatives and other fearmongers, in order to make John Doe comply with policies that benefit only the upper 1% of the population.

Germany has one of the highest labour costs in the world (due to social security paid by the employer), and we are part of a gobal economy with freedom of businessowners to move wherever and whenever they want. If the above statement were true, Germany would be below Ukraine in ranking. Yet it is not, not even close.

10 Countries with the lowest labour cost.

Egypt
Sri Lanka
Senegal
Kenya
India
Vietnam
Ghana
Pakistan
Bangladesh
Madagascar

Now, if a businessman (or one of the politicians licking his boots) suggested that he would kep his business in my country on the one condition that the labour cost is as low as in the above countries (and turning my country into one of those), then, id say "thanks, but no thanks, and now go and kindly fuck off, or...keep paying my people what they actually deserve. And next time you try to blackmail me, we will rasie the minimum wage by another 1$".

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17-07-2017, 10:34 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
Seattle: McDonald's answer to the $15 minimum wage -

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17-07-2017, 10:57 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(17-07-2017 10:34 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Seattle: McDonald's answer to the $15 minimum wage -

[Image: 2173760-630x409.jpg]

This is the future, no matter what the wages are.

The real trick is going to be the design of a new way to distribute money/goods once most labor is automated. I wish I was young just to be able to see what humans will come up with regarding that. Or, perhaps there will be enough new jobs in other fields and much of the population will have to be re-trained for a generation or two.

But automation is coming in a big way. There is no stopping it.

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17-07-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'll get flamed for this one - but I'll have more fun than Lord Dark Helmet pulling off his spectacular election prediction, in a few years.

Seattle just decided to become the next Detroit.

They enacted their boneheaded $15 an hour minimum wage law (read business tax), and now an income tax on higher wage earners. (If minimum wage really worked and didn't spur inflation, how come they have to keep upping it ?- coincidentally around election time).

I guess they want to be able to pay all the welfare, and generous city pensions...


That'll be fine - till the big businesses pull out - markets change and the big sources of income dry up and blow away.....

Then the city will cut back on services, the streetlight will go dark, crime will go up - and those that can afford to - will flee for greener pastures.

Just like Detroit....

I guess if you've got a political bent - you can apply as Emergency Manager.... They'll be needing one in the future....

......

Coincidentally - my sister just left and moved back to Michigan....

She wanted to beat the traffic.

Did you know that Washington state has no state income tax?

Did you know that in Seattle the only people affected by this income tax are people who live there and make more 250k a year (500k for couples filing joint returns).

Meanwhile Oregon has state income tax but no sales tax (most people I know that live in Washington don't mind making the trip to Portland to shop), but if you happen to make more than 9k a year, you pay the same tax rate as the millionaire. Let that sink in.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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17-07-2017, 11:25 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(17-07-2017 11:16 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 06:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'll get flamed for this one - but I'll have more fun than Lord Dark Helmet pulling off his spectacular election prediction, in a few years.

Seattle just decided to become the next Detroit.

They enacted their boneheaded $15 an hour minimum wage law (read business tax), and now an income tax on higher wage earners. (If minimum wage really worked and didn't spur inflation, how come they have to keep upping it ?- coincidentally around election time).

I guess they want to be able to pay all the welfare, and generous city pensions...


That'll be fine - till the big businesses pull out - markets change and the big sources of income dry up and blow away.....

Then the city will cut back on services, the streetlight will go dark, crime will go up - and those that can afford to - will flee for greener pastures.

Just like Detroit....

I guess if you've got a political bent - you can apply as Emergency Manager.... They'll be needing one in the future....

......

Coincidentally - my sister just left and moved back to Michigan....

She wanted to beat the traffic.

Did you know that Washington state has no state income tax?

Did you know that in Seattle the only people affected by this income tax are people who live there and make more 250k a year (500k for couples filing joint returns).

Meanwhile Oregon has state income tax but no sales tax (most people I know that live in Washington don't mind making the trip to Portland to shop), but if you happen to make more than 9k a year, you pay the same tax rate as the millionaire. Let that sink in.

When I was growing up I lived in Clark County, right off the I5 bridge near the river (I could ride my bike to the Columbia river) Paid no state income tax, and as I recall no or low state property tax or something like that I was a kid so I don't know all the details. THEN would drive across the bridge to Portland to pay no sales tax.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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17-07-2017, 11:35 AM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2017 11:47 AM by JesseB.)
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
I actually heard about this idea that I think is pretty cool, It's a bill that was proposed in the House...

Basically it says that if companies don't want to pay their employee's a livable wage that's fine. They just have to pay a tax, and that tax money goes directly to programs that support those who don't make enough to live on.

I really like this approach, it's similar to smoking taxes. I mean greed is an addiction so some companies really will continue to pay their employee's below what they need to live they'll pay super high taxes as a result and fund the programs that support the people they fuck over for their greed. I mean our current system it's all of us that support their fucking greed ya? They should be the one's to pay for their bad decisions we shouldn't be burdened just because they are mindless fucking addicts to money.

Edit^ oh and minimum wage can easily be abused. I mean everyone gets a forced wage increase and the landlords in the area think "OH more money for me!" It's fucked up but that kinda shit does happen. Fucking greedy shitty people that can't even maintain the buildings they overcharge people to live in...... (I'm not fond of most landlords, lived in too many slums)

idk.... (OH by the way, it's ya'll that pay to support greedy fucks bad habbits.... I don't cause I'm not exactly employed yet.... haven't been for 2 years now, that'll change once i get a job again though)

The thing about people in the 1% is that they will continue to take for themselves until the entire thing collapses. It's like a person who can't control their eating (or lack of eating in the case of a breatharian), they'll just do it till they die.... except in the case of the top 1% they'll doom us all in the process. This has happened numerous times throughout history, and eventually people stand the fuck up against it (french revolution anyone?). It's an addiction, a disease, a mental illness. It's ok for people to be like that, but it's no ok for society to forget we need a balance (like a balanced diet) and that when things get too one sided it destroys the entire system ruining countless lives in the process. I don't begrudge the rich their wealth, I simply advocate self control and balance ya?

Because I'm the stone you can't squeeze blood from

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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17-07-2017, 11:49 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
The main advantage Seattle has over most of the country is intelligent and talented people want to live there. That's a natural byproduct of liberalism. Successful entrepreneurs always pat themselves on the back for making a place great but it's the people who make up the communities and how they interact that makes the biggest difference. Alabama can do everything possible to be business friendly but it's still Alabama.
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17-07-2017, 12:19 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(17-07-2017 10:57 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(17-07-2017 10:34 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Seattle: McDonald's answer to the $15 minimum wage -

[Image: 2173760-630x409.jpg]

This is the future, no matter what the wages are.

The real trick is going to be the design of a new way to distribute money/goods once most labor is automated. I wish I was young just to be able to see what humans will come up with regarding that. Or, perhaps there will be enough new jobs in other fields and much of the population will have to be re-trained for a generation or two.

But automation is coming in a big way. There is no stopping it.

That's true. Many companies who haven't done so already, are considering it. Even Panera Bread is in the fray.

What this is doing is eliminating and making obsolete many fast food entry level jobs. As Andy Puzder, CEO of Carl's Jr and Hardee's said - "If you're making labor more expensive, and automation less expensive — this is not rocket science."

We're talking entry level jobs here, not management, entrepreneurs, recruiters or developers. Next step; make the entire operation automated, eliminating the need for cooks, supervisors, leads and lower-level management?

I honestly don't know the answer to this. Maybe retail? How does a teenager start to build a good work ethic, be a team player, and learn to interact with the public on a business level if these basic, entry level jobs are gone?
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