Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
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18-07-2017, 10:31 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 06:03 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You're failing to note that each time you got a "" raise," in minimum wage - some other guy who was busting his ass to get ahead, and had received a pay raise to "minimum wage" + (whatever raise he'd earned) was now knocked back down to minimum wage....

In other words, any incentive to work hard is removed...

I don't think it works that way. Instead I think this is an actual case of a rising tide lifts all boats. If that dude was worth more than minimum wage before to his employer, he's likely still worth more than minimum wage to his employer and that means his employer will have no choice but to raise his wage or lose him to another employer who realizes he's worth more than minimum wage. I don't find any of the economic arguments against a livable minimum wage persuasive. Successful companies like Costco already pay their lowest paid employees more than minimum wage. Happy employees are what made them successful. It might mean Walmart won't open up another minimum wage, no more than 30 hours so no health care, shit job shop, but it won't keep Costco out.

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18-07-2017, 11:02 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 10:31 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 06:03 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You're failing to note that each time you got a "" raise," in minimum wage - some other guy who was busting his ass to get ahead, and had received a pay raise to "minimum wage" + (whatever raise he'd earned) was now knocked back down to minimum wage....

In other words, any incentive to work hard is removed...

I don't think it works that way. Instead I think this is an actual case of a rising tide lifts all boats. If that dude was worth more than minimum wage before to his employer, he's likely still worth more than minimum wage to his employer and that means his employer will have no choice but to raise his wage or lose him to another employer who realizes he's worth more than minimum wage. I don't find any of the economic arguments against a livable minimum wage persuasive. Successful companies like Costco already pay their lowest paid employees more than minimum wage. Happy employees are what made them successful. It might mean Walmart won't open up another minimum wage, no more than 30 hours so no health care, shit job shop, but it won't keep Costco out.

Really???

You really believe that an employer when forced to pay employees more than the employer feels they deserve, that that employer will also give all his other employees who he was previously paying above the minimum a corresponding pay raise to keep pay disparity?????

Wow...


You want to buy a bridge I have for sale???????

Dodgy

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18-07-2017, 11:03 AM (This post was last modified: 18-07-2017 11:06 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 11:02 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 10:31 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I don't think it works that way. Instead I think this is an actual case of a rising tide lifts all boats. If that dude was worth more than minimum wage before to his employer, he's likely still worth more than minimum wage to his employer and that means his employer will have no choice but to raise his wage or lose him to another employer who realizes he's worth more than minimum wage. I don't find any of the economic arguments against a livable minimum wage persuasive. Successful companies like Costco already pay their lowest paid employees more than minimum wage. Happy employees are what made them successful. It might mean Walmart won't open up another minimum wage, no more than 30 hours so no health care, shit job shop, but it won't keep Costco out.

Really???

You really believe that an employer when forced to pay employees more than the employer feels they deserve, that that employer will also give all his other employees who he was previously paying above the minimum a corresponding pay raise to keep pay disparity?????

Only if he wants to keep them as employees. If the market thinks their skills are worth more than minimum wage, somebody will pay them more than minimum wage. That's how the market works.

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18-07-2017, 11:12 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 11:03 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 11:02 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Really???

You really believe that an employer when forced to pay employees more than the employer feels they deserve, that that employer will also give all his other employees who he was previously paying above the minimum a corresponding pay raise to keep pay disparity?????

Only if he wants to keep them as employees. If their skills are worth more than minimum wage somebody will pay them more than minimum wage.

Unfortunately, that's not what happens in most cases.

Hours get cut, wages stagnate, people get laid off, and the people who are willing to bust ass usually put in the effort to find a better paying job - leaving the employer with a bunch of overpaid morons....

Employers are not sources of unlimited funding. They only have so much budgeted for wasges. It's basic economics. It's even more pronounced in small business. So, in effect minimum wages aren't all that bad for mega corporations - as it helps eliminate competition.

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18-07-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
If you can't afford to pay people minimum wage then do the work yourself. Why should anybody work for less than they can live on?

I think the law should be no one is allowed to make more than three times what the lowest paid employee makes at any business. If the cashiers at Walmart make $8 an hour the CEO's should be held at $24. Surely they can live on THREE TIMES as much as they expect their employees to live on!
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18-07-2017, 11:49 AM (This post was last modified: 18-07-2017 11:53 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 11:12 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  It's even more pronounced in small business. So, in effect minimum wages aren't all that bad for mega corporations - as it helps eliminate competition.

I think that's true. Seattle has considered the potential impacts on small businesses and came up with a 6 year phase-in to $15. But fuck the mega corporations, if Costco can eat it and outperform them at the same time, I don't buy that they can't eat it.

$10.00 by April 1, 2015
$10.50 by January 1, 2016
$11.00 by January 1, 2017
$11.50 by January 1, 2018
$12.00 by January 1, 2019
$13.50 by January 1, 2020
$15.00 by January 1, 2021
$15.75 by January 1, 2022
$16.50 by January 1, 2023
$17.25 by January 1, 2024

By 2024 40% of us will have been replaced by automation anyway so it won't really matter.

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18-07-2017, 12:28 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
I'm missing what big industries the Seattle area has reliant on hands that will be sent not just out of their area, but out of the region in total that wound up hurting not just Detroit but Cleveland, cinci, and littler cities in the area around too.

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18-07-2017, 12:36 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 11:26 AM)ImFred Wrote:  If you can't afford to pay people minimum wage then do the work yourself. Why should anybody work for less than they can live on?

I think the law should be no one is allowed to make more than three times what the lowest paid employee makes at any business. If the cashiers at Walmart make $8 an hour the CEO's should be held at $24. Surely they can live on THREE TIMES as much as they expect their employees to live on!

So Elon Musk should risk his fortunes to start a potential multi-billion company, so he can earn $80,000 a year???

Sure, that seems fair....


Dodgy

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18-07-2017, 01:22 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 12:36 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 11:26 AM)ImFred Wrote:  If you can't afford to pay people minimum wage then do the work yourself. Why should anybody work for less than they can live on?

I think the law should be no one is allowed to make more than three times what the lowest paid employee makes at any business. If the cashiers at Walmart make $8 an hour the CEO's should be held at $24. Surely they can live on THREE TIMES as much as they expect their employees to live on!

So Elon Musk should risk his fortunes to start a potential multi-billion company, so he can earn $80,000 a year???

Sure, that seems fair....


Dodgy

He shouldn't be expecting people to live on under $27,000 then. That does seem fair, actually.
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18-07-2017, 01:26 PM
RE: Seattle - how to tax a city into poverty
(18-07-2017 01:22 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(18-07-2017 12:36 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  So Elon Musk should risk his fortunes to start a potential multi-billion company, so he can earn $80,000 a year???

Sure, that seems fair....


Dodgy

He shouldn't be expecting people to live on under $27,000 then. That does seem fair, actually.

So send me some...

27 k is a bit more than twice what I live on....

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