Secular Morality
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13-05-2014, 05:27 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 01:48 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 07:51 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Why is any of this important if everyone here will be dead within five or six decades and will be worm food?

We all will die. Even if your imaginary monster sky-fairy existed; according to your own myths, every one of us still dies. Even, for the moment, supposing that when we die, some part of us would somehow "live on" in some utopian fantastical ghostly form; your myths describe that "transition" to be a consequence of our deaths here "in this world", as you would say.

But our children and grandchildren will still walk this earth after we die, your superstitions notwithstanding.

And, "future worm food" or not, if my actions in the here and now can somehow benefit, *enlighten*, and make life "here in this world" better for our children, our ancestors, and their future neighbors (globally as well as locally), friends, and loved ones, then I can count myself having lived well, and having made a positive difference and a contribution to those who walk this earth behind us, whether they know it or not.

none of it ultimately matters.

you think you benefit mankind by your life. thats fine. you live how you choose and no one can say you shouldnt if atheism is true.

each individual exists to live how he wants.

no one can give you a reason not to live however you choose....

however...
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13-05-2014, 06:06 AM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2014 06:10 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 05:17 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 03:39 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  It's important precisely because we'll be dead in five or six decades and will become worm food. It's the only life we have. Let's make it worthwhile.

worthwhile? do you know how naive and deluded you sound? nothing you or anyone else does ultimately means anything.

Ultimately means anything to who?

For something to be meaningful there needs to be someone to derive meaning from it. For me five or six decades of living means a lot more to me because I know that's all I will have. So I want to achieve something with it and contribute something that outlasts me. That makes my life more meaningful and worthwhile to me while I am living it.

I am well aware that entropy increases inexorably over time and everything will ultimately cease to exist (which is one reason why the Christian God can't exist), but that's not relevant and completely out of scope when compared to an insignificant being such as myself. i am a human living on planet Earth. The meaning I apply to my life is constrained to my environment.
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13-05-2014, 06:08 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 05:20 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  you are dying right now and those you teach are in a state of steady biological decay. death for you and your loved ones comes swiftly. nothing you have done or will do will amount ultimately to anything.

Yeah deal with it. The rest of us have had to learn to deal with it as well.
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13-05-2014, 07:55 AM
RE: Secular Morality
I will say this though...

I can see why your view appeals to serial rapists and murderers and other like persons.

Jeffrey Dahmer once was interviewed and talked about how when growing up he was an atheist and how his beliefs made it possible for him to do the things he did without the burdensome thought that he would be held accountable for them when he died.

such views offer consolation to the rapists and murderers because they know that when they die they will lay down in the dust right beside those who they have murdered and raped and they will be no worse off than their victims for the things they have done.

The price one has to pay for autonomy and freedom is too high for most. Most are not willing to pay the price atheists pay for the supposed freedom from ultimate accountability.

If one accepts atheism they must accept the fact that people like Hitler get off scott free by just killing themselves.

That the murderous coward rapist is no worse or better off than the most virtuous self sacrificing humanist.

Even if this were true, people could not live this way.

For this reason atheism is absurd.
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13-05-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Most are not willing to pay the price atheists pay for the supposed freedom from ultimate accountability.

Au contraire, Jerry.

Atheists know their accountability and responsibility lies here and now, in this world. No re-dos, no second chances, no after-death rewards.

Religitards are the ones who flit gaily through this life, believing that they can make it all better later on by saying, "Oops, my bad," to some invisible man behind the curtain. No responsibility, no accountability.

Religitards are maxxing out their credit cards while atheists pay cash.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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13-05-2014, 08:06 AM
RE: Secular Morality
If one accepts Christianity they must accept the fact that people like Hitler get off scott free by asking for forgiveness before they die.

But we don't decide what's true based on how comfortable we are with the consequences. We decide what's true based on evidence of what is true.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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13-05-2014, 08:07 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I will say this though...

I can see why your view appeals to serial rapists and murderers and other like persons.

Jeffrey Dahmer once was interviewed and talked about how when growing up he was an atheist and how his beliefs made it possible for him to do the things he did without the burdensome thought that he would be held accountable for them when he died.

such views offer consolation to the rapists and murderers because they know that when they die they will lay down in the dust right beside those who they have murdered and raped and they will be no worse off than their victims for the things they have done.

The price one has to pay for autonomy and freedom is too high for most. Most are not willing to pay the price atheists pay for the supposed freedom from ultimate accountability.

If one accepts atheism they must accept the fact that people like Hitler get off scott free by just killing themselves.

That the murderous coward rapist is no worse or better off than the most virtuous self sacrificing humanist.

Even if this were true, people could not live this way.

For this reason atheism is absurd.

Why don't you go get yourself off scot-free. It would benefit the world.

Your insane, delusional ramblings benefit no one, and in fact present ideas that are a danger to the well-being of people and society.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-05-2014, 08:08 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The price one has to pay for autonomy and freedom is too high for most. Most are not willing to pay the price atheists pay for the supposed freedom from ultimate accountability.
What price? It seems to me the price is with the theists due to the constant fear of judgment and hell; or the lack of freedom to do some things that would not otherwise be viewed as wrong were it not for religious dictating.

(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Even if this were true, people could not live this way.

For this reason atheism is absurd.
Your "logic" doesn't follow at all. Wishing, no matter how strongly, doesn't make something a fact.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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13-05-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 08:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I will say this though...

I can see why your view appeals to serial rapists and murderers and other like persons.

Jeffrey Dahmer once was interviewed and talked about how when growing up he was an atheist and how his beliefs made it possible for him to do the things he did without the burdensome thought that he would be held accountable for them when he died.

such views offer consolation to the rapists and murderers because they know that when they die they will lay down in the dust right beside those who they have murdered and raped and they will be no worse off than their victims for the things they have done.

The price one has to pay for autonomy and freedom is too high for most. Most are not willing to pay the price atheists pay for the supposed freedom from ultimate accountability.

If one accepts atheism they must accept the fact that people like Hitler get off scott free by just killing themselves.

That the murderous coward rapist is no worse or better off than the most virtuous self sacrificing humanist.

Even if this were true, people could not live this way.

For this reason atheism is absurd.

Why don't you go get yourself off scot-free. It would benefit the world.

Your insane, delusional ramblings benefit no one, and in fact present ideas that are a danger to the well-being of people and society.

bah!

your views are ultimately no better than mine. you have no ultimate advantage over me for the views you hold. you die soon...i die soon....we decompose.

the cosmos is indifferent.
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13-05-2014, 08:19 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(12-05-2014 07:51 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Why is any of this important if everyone here will be dead within five or six decades and will be worm food?
Why is it important to you even with your gawd? You know you're just supposedly buying yourself a ticket to an eternity on your knees and an eternity in fear of doing something that at any moment may cause you to be cast out of heaven into eternal burning. I mean, with his temper, you don't seriously think your gawd would suddenly change moods just because you stepped foot into his heaven do you?

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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