Secular Morality
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13-05-2014, 08:21 AM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2014 08:29 AM by wazzel.)
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I will say this though...

I can see why your view appeals to serial rapists and murderers and other like persons.

Jeffrey Dahmer once was interviewed and talked about how when growing up he was an atheist and how his beliefs made it possible for him to do the things he did without the burdensome thought that he would be held accountable for them when he died.

such views offer consolation to the rapists and murderers because they know that when they die they will lay down in the dust right beside those who they have murdered and raped and they will be no worse off than their victims for the things they have done.

The price one has to pay for autonomy and freedom is too high for most. Most are not willing to pay the price atheists pay for the supposed freedom from ultimate accountability.

If one accepts atheism they must accept the fact that people like Hitler get off scott free by just killing themselves.

That the murderous coward rapist is no worse or better off than the most virtuous self sacrificing humanist.

Even if this were true, people could not live this way.

For this reason atheism is absurd.

How do you rationalize that when religion had/has people like Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc.....
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13-05-2014, 08:57 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  ........Wrote stuff.........

For this reason atheism is absurd.
At work.

Really? This is the best you can offer? The equivalent of standing in the middle of the playground and shouting rude names at others?

You invoke Jeffry Dalmer whom I have no real back ground knowledge beyond a google search and Hitler, a well supported Catholic at the time of his brutal rise to power...not to mention the things done late in his reigeim.

Heck, will you be throwing out names like Pol Pot and Stalin next?


I, for one, would just like to see some of the previous posters questions even given an attempt at an answer or rebuttal.

Though, if the best you can do is your posts to date, I do not hold much hope but await being pleasantly surprised.

Much cheers to all.
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13-05-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(12-05-2014 07:51 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Why is any of this important if everyone here will be dead within five or six decades and will be worm food?

Because existentialism > Nihilism.

Why is any of it important if Jesus gives everyone everlasting existance in Heaven? What possible reason would there be to behave ethically with a get out of jail free card of forgiveness? Every murderer, rapist, and pedophile who converts in prison "goes to heaven," yet their victims may not?

The torturers of the inquisition get to go to heaven, there is no accountability for preists who molest little boys, because they have a church to protect them, and any child that turned away from religion due to years of abuse is now damned for eternity?

Theism is it's own kind of nihilism. It argues knowledge cannot be properly derived from science, but by revelation. It makes this life less valuable for anyone involved. It allows for the psychopathy that no other person than the theist of that specific sect is truly moral, or a full person, and already damned.

It contributes to the dehumanization of people who are not of your sect, allows for genocide, slavery, suicide bombings and other atrocities in the name of an "immortal soul" which cheapens any natural existence, to the extent that it's followers cannot see any purpose or meaning in actually living, and can't seem to understand why anyone would behave ethically without an invisible parent watching them 24/7.

For instance:
Quote:Citing four different studies, Zuckerman states: "Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread." He also states: "Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries."

Quote:And these findings are not limited to murder rates, as rates of all violent crime tend to be higher in "religious" states. Zuckerman also points out that atheists are very much under-represented in the American prison population (only 0.2%).

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-hu...d-religion

The federal bureau of prison statistics:

Quote:Response Number %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)

Unknown/No Answer 18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted 93112 80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.

Held in Custody 3856 (not surveyed due to temporary custody)
----------------------------
Total In Prisons 96968

http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/athe...ligious-do

So who are the nihilists who don't care what happens to people during this existence again?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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13-05-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 08:10 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 08:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why don't you go get yourself off scot-free. It would benefit the world.

Your insane, delusional ramblings benefit no one, and in fact present ideas that are a danger to the well-being of people and society.

bah!

your views are ultimately no better than mine. you have no ultimate advantage over me for the views you hold. you die soon...i die soon....we decompose.

the cosmos is indifferent.

But humanity isn't. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-05-2014, 09:36 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 05:27 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 01:48 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  We all will die. Even if your imaginary monster sky-fairy existed; according to your own myths, every one of us still dies. Even, for the moment, supposing that when we die, some part of us would somehow "live on" in some utopian fantastical ghostly form; your myths describe that "transition" to be a consequence of our deaths here "in this world", as you would say.

But our children and grandchildren will still walk this earth after we die, your superstitions notwithstanding.

And, "future worm food" or not, if my actions in the here and now can somehow benefit, *enlighten*, and make life "here in this world" better for our children, our ancestors, and their future neighbors (globally as well as locally), friends, and loved ones, then I can count myself having lived well, and having made a positive difference and a contribution to those who walk this earth behind us, whether they know it or not.

none of it ultimately matters.

Because some idiot fucktard on the internet says so? Fuck off.



Quote:you think you benefit mankind by your life. thats fine. you live how you choose and no one can say you shouldnt if atheism is true.

Learn to use capitalization and apostrophes, idiot. And quit using stupid phrases you ripped off of Billy "Larry" Craig.


Quote:each individual exists to live how he wants.

no one can give you a reason not to live however you choose....

We have given reasons to live in ways that are compatible with others, no matter how hard you try to ignore them. And your fucking batshit superstitions are no better a source for morality than what you try and fail to cast our morality to be.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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13-05-2014, 09:38 AM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2014 09:42 AM by Monster_Riffs.)
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 08:57 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  ........Wrote stuff.........

For this reason atheism is absurd.
At work.

Really? This is the best you can offer? The equivalent of standing in the middle of the playground and shouting rude names at others?

You invoke Jeffry Dalmer whom I have no real back ground knowledge beyond a google search and Hitler, a well supported Catholic at the time of his brutal rise to power...not to mention the things done late in his reigeim.

Heck, will you be throwing out names like Pol Pot and Stalin next?


I, for one, would just like to see some of the previous posters questions even given an attempt at an answer or rebuttal.

Though, if the best you can do is your posts to date, I do not hold much hope but await being pleasantly surprised.

Much cheers to all.

Do you mean, he could try to demonstrate an understanding of the shifting moral zeitgeist and then give an explanation as to why he thinks it is incorrect.

Lets use the strawman Dahmer.

Dahmer - Hello society, it is my view that indiscriminate murder is cool, seasoned liberally with some perversity! What do you think society? Will that enrich and progress our species?

Society - No.

Jeremy, you are a cunt.

Here is the soundtrack to your life



I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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13-05-2014, 09:39 AM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  BLah blah Jeffrey Dahmer blah blah..

Oh, look the fucking Dahmer card. Dahmer was raised by batshit-crazy xtards such as yourself, and their imposition of their batshit superstitions had a direct effect on his developing into a serial killer. Fuck you and your sad attempts at revisionism.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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13-05-2014, 01:25 PM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 08:21 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(13-05-2014 07:55 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Jeffrey Dahmer once was interviewed and talked about how when growing up he was an atheist and how his beliefs made it possible for him to do the things he did without the burdensome thought that he would be held accountable for them when he died.

How do you rationalize that when religion had/has people like Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc.....

They believed they were getting rewarded.

The thing Jeremy is missing is: beliefs in what does or doesn't happen in the afterlife cut both ways, depending on what behavior the individual is rationalizing.
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13-05-2014, 01:30 PM
RE: Secular Morality
Religious people copied secular morality.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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13-05-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: Secular Morality
(13-05-2014 01:30 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Religious people copied secular morality.

Correct...
Then they pretended it was their own idea. Just like tbey did with Jesus Big Grin

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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