Secularism and Political Philosophy
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24-06-2016, 04:23 PM
Secularism and Political Philosophy
Just a quick thought. I am new to the secular movement, but my political views -- for many different reasons -- are decidedly on the right. I've noticed that most of the prominent people (I am not sure about the "rank and file" yet) in the movement are radical leftists. Why on earth do so many atheists align themselves with the left? Having an advanced degree in economics from the University of Virginia, that subject ALONE should swing secularists to the right. Of course there is the supremely notable exception of Ayn Rand and her philosophy of Objectivism, but they aren't easy to find.

I am merely curious. Please try not to get too upset with me.
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24-06-2016, 04:26 PM
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
(24-06-2016 04:23 PM)Belinda Wrote:  Just a quick thought. I am new to the secular movement, but my political views -- for many different reasons -- are decidedly on the right. I've noticed that most of the prominent people (I am not sure about the "rank and file" yet) in the movement are radical leftists. Why on earth do so many atheists align themselves with the left? Having an advanced degree in economics from the University of Virginia, that subject ALONE should swing secularists to the right. Of course there is the supremely notable exception of Ayn Rand and her philosophy of Objectivism, but they aren't easy to find.

I am merely curious. Please try not to get too upset with me.

Atheists tend to be higher educated and white this also corresponds with being Liberal. May I ask why you think 30 years of failed policy should convince people that the right should be trusted with any economy?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-06-2016, 04:32 PM
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
Really, if you hang around for a while you will find proponents of each side.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-06-2016, 04:53 PM
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
In my experience, and i am 70 years old meaning I have had more years of experience than many the Christians are not really in with what heir church teaches, such as love thy neighbor, care for the poor etc...But most atheists take these principles as given. It takes teaching to remove one from these attitudes that seem to be the norm in humanity.
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24-06-2016, 05:09 PM
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
(24-06-2016 04:23 PM)Belinda Wrote:  Just a quick thought. I am new to the secular movement, but my political views -- for many different reasons -- are decidedly on the right. I've noticed that most of the prominent people (I am not sure about the "rank and file" yet) in the movement are radical leftists. Why on earth do so many atheists align themselves with the left? Having an advanced degree in economics from the University of Virginia, that subject ALONE should swing secularists to the right. Of course there is the supremely notable exception of Ayn Rand and her philosophy of Objectivism, but they aren't easy to find.

I am merely curious. Please try not to get too upset with me.

Actually, if you will look around this site, in economics-related thread topics, you'll find that many of us are right-wing/libertarian. We have active members who agree with the most radical fundamentalist Christian on every topic except for Biblical Law and the existence of God. Certainly, many or most of us are sociologically libertarian, since the idea of using government coercion to secure certain "moral" behaviors which harm no one is rooted in religion. We'll argue with you about it, but at the same time we will welcome your insight and knowledge about economics, and some of us will likely agree with you.

I personally am not able to support right-wing economic policies, as I have worked in the field of environmental regulation in the state capital of Kansas, where we got to witness firsthand the effects of deregulation and the dismantling of tax-based social programs. Right-wing economic policies have gutted Kansas in a shorter period than I thought possible, as well as allowed mega-agribusiness corporations (who pretty much have owned the state congress for the past 20+ years) to drive out small farmers and pollute/eliminate many of our waterways, to the point that even the heavily Republican congress is now apologizing and some are calling for the resignation of the governor. Likewise, even the son (Rand Paul) of the most hardcore Libertarian, named after Ayn, has admitted that a true "free market" is impossible and a bad idea... he simply says everyone should read Ayn Rand and apply her ideas.

Frankly, I find the socio-economic ideas of Ayn Rand (and anyone who agrees with her) to be at least borderline sociopathic; likewise, I think of unfettered capitalism to be both historically dangerous to humans and demonstrably a bad idea in modern times. I am economically and socially left-of-center because it agrees with my views on Humanism, and the right-wing ideas strike me as not worth the price in human suffering, even if the left-wing ideas are horribly applied and in need of revision.

As was pointed out to you, most people with degrees tend to lean to the left-- and there is also a correlation (though, of course, not a causation) between education and atheism. So welcome to TTA and I wish you luck in convincing me. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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24-06-2016, 05:10 PM
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
(24-06-2016 04:23 PM)Belinda Wrote:  Just a quick thought. I am new to the secular movement, but my political views -- for many different reasons -- are decidedly on the right. I've noticed that most of the prominent people (I am not sure about the "rank and file" yet) in the movement are radical leftists. Why on earth do so many atheists align themselves with the left? Having an advanced degree in economics from the University of Virginia, that subject ALONE should swing secularists to the right. Of course there is the supremely notable exception of Ayn Rand and her philosophy of Objectivism, but they aren't easy to find.

I am merely curious. Please try not to get too upset with me.

I am more left than right. However I do not trust any political party or politician. I think those who do are uneducated in history.

It has always been, and always shall be, the patricians vs the plebeians. The haves and haves not, shall we say. Usually those who stood up for the plebeians were murdered. The Gracchi are an early version of this.

The poor have risen a couple of times, most notably in France and Russia. Both situations were caused by extremes. Today we can see it in Brasil, with the poor in favelas and disease rampant.

In your country, with all it's technology, you don't even have a proper public health system. Yours is corruptly run by insurance companies. An underclass is forming, people are so shit scared many have military style weapons expecting armageddon. Your country is in debt to China by $1.27 trillion.

Sound economic policy? I do not believe so.

You have a person such as Trump, a worldwide laughing stock, leading the right in the race to be president. Big Grin

The left seems to me to care more for the population at large. Not just the patricians. Currently in Australia our right wing Prime Minister wants to give 50 million in tax cuts to big business. And take 80 million out of the public health system.

But as I said, I don't trust any of them.

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24-06-2016, 05:14 PM
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
Well secularism is generally a detachment from many of the values that conservatives apply highly.. which often, not always, come from religious means.

The arguments of political positions off traditional values, the as it was in past, purity, sanctity, and sexual morality are more often conservative values. A lot of secular poltical folks would think those are not too critical as values to push.

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16-11-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
(24-06-2016 04:23 PM)Belinda Wrote:  Just a quick thought. I am new to the secular movement, but my political views -- for many different reasons -- are decidedly on the right. I've noticed that most of the prominent people (I am not sure about the "rank and file" yet) in the movement are radical leftists. Why on earth do so many atheists align themselves with the left? Having an advanced degree in economics from the University of Virginia, that subject ALONE should swing secularists to the right. Of course there is the supremely notable exception of Ayn Rand and her philosophy of Objectivism, but they aren't easy to find.

I am merely curious. Please try not to get too upset with me.

What is a "radical leftist" and how does it differ from how you use the term "liberal?"

(how and why does a Ph.D. in economics factor into any of this?)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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16-11-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
I'm a technocratic anarchist. Laugh out load

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16-11-2016, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2016 02:22 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Secularism and Political Philosophy
@Belinda

I wonder how atheist could not be leftist. Right for me at least is synonymous with enforcing religious taboos, nationalism and laughable grasp of economy, though only first characteristic don't mesh with atheism.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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