"Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
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14-09-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
(14-09-2013 08:38 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  And I thought Canada was a good place...

Now where can I go when the new government makes everything go tits up here...

Canada has a corporate, and religious government. They've been doing away with international environmental laws, and lowering food and safety laws to better accommodate US companies. As well as becoming more militarized to accommodate US and European weapons manufacturers, and to bolster various military expeditions around the world led by those outside governments.

It's a sick and disgusting trend.

We'll see if the NDP is able to make ground and fix this.
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15-09-2013, 06:21 AM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
(14-09-2013 08:38 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  And I thought Canada was a good place...

Now where can I go when the new government makes everything go tits up here...

Don't worry we're not talking about Canada, we're talking about Quebec. They are "distinctly" different.

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15-09-2013, 06:44 AM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
(14-09-2013 08:59 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Canada has a corporate, and religious government. They've been doing away with international environmental laws, and lowering food and safety laws to better accommodate US companies. As well as becoming more militarized to accommodate US and European weapons manufacturers, and to bolster various military expeditions around the world led by those outside governments.

It's a sick and disgusting trend.

We'll see if the NDP is able to make ground and fix this.

Offtopic

Please let's keep this on topic. What's happening with this in Quebec is important.

Most importantly for me is to let people know that this is not how a secular government, or a secular society acts. 'Cause you know that media outlets like Sun News are going to have a field day blaming this on the terrible "secularization" of Canada's christian founding principles ad nauseum.

We can discuss why you're wrong about that other stuff in another thread if you like. Dodgy

"I am a knowledgeable man, I have knowledge. If I knew how I knew what I know, I would know half as much, because it would be clogged up with where I knew it from...that is why I cannot always cite my sources. - David Mitchell
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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15-09-2013, 06:55 AM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
(15-09-2013 06:44 AM)unsapien Wrote:  
(14-09-2013 08:59 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Canada has a corporate, and religious government. They've been doing away with international environmental laws, and lowering food and safety laws to better accommodate US companies. As well as becoming more militarized to accommodate US and European weapons manufacturers, and to bolster various military expeditions around the world led by those outside governments.

It's a sick and disgusting trend

We'll see if the NDP is able to make ground and fix this.

Offtopic

Please let's keep this on topic. What's happening with this in Quebec is important.

Most importantly for me is to let people know that this is not how a secular government, or a secular society acts. 'Cause you know that media outlets like Sun News are going to have a field day blaming this on the terrible "secularization" of Canada's christian founding principles ad nauseum.

We can discuss why you're wrong about that other stuff in another thread if you like. Dodgy

...except FreeThought said Canada, not Quebec. Like. Really-really. Blink

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15-09-2013, 04:51 PM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
I live in Ottawa and there's been a lot of discussion about this issue - it kind of shocks me the number of people defending this legislation on the basis that the hijab, niqab and burka interfere with facial recognition. While I agree that the issue of community security is important (if you believe the claims that a lot of people wearing those garments are actually doing so with nefarious intent, which I do not btw), I'd prefer dealing with anyone wearing their outward symbol of faith and performing their duties in a professional manner, than having to deal with someone who - although forced to conform to a personal appearance policy that disidentifies their faith - uses their time on the job in verbally proselytizing to their clientèle.

My main objection to the legislation is that the "secularization" is directed at non-Christian religious groups only. If they want to remove all the crosses and Roman Catholic paraphernalia that decorate L'Assemblée Nationale and every other federal, provincial and municipal government building in Quebec, then I'd have no objection to the clear hypocrisy the legislation is promoting in its current form.

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16-09-2013, 04:07 AM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
Seems simple enough to me. Anyone can wear whatever the fuck they want without fear of persecution. While that is truly no possible because we humans are bigots (the lot of us, some more than others.) forbidding religious clothing and articles of faith is not acceptable to me. This one is even worse than that. It is the opposite of secular. It unfairly limits the 'other' religions more so than it does Christianity. That is no longer secular. They are choosing sides, and in this case they are choosing the side that is also the majority, big surprise. Dunno what's so difficult about letting people do what they want so long as they aren't harming or restricting others. If a person is being biased against someone because of their religion, theological, or philosophical beliefs then they should be removed of their position. It isn't a perfect system, but it's better than this garbage. That's my 2 cents anyhow.

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21-11-2013, 10:18 AM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
Are you sure you lived in Montreal?
Those terrorists were only a few guys and there was no need to take away the rights of all Canadians like Trudeau did (something that makes the Patriot act look like candy).
The Parti Quebecois denounced those terrorists and was never violent.
May I point to you that there are only 7 million French Canadians and that if those language laws, which started before the Parti Quebecois even existed, had not been voted decades ago, there would probably be no French in Canada now.
You seem to think that a minority is bullying a crushing majority.

(11-09-2013 02:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  Fucking nationalism, sectarianism, xenophobia, culture war, ...

I lived in Montreal under martial law because French extremists were kidnapping, murdering, and bombing. Fucking FLQ.

They've tried terrorism, they've imposed language laws, now this crap.

Their culture will survive or not based on its value. They only engender anger and disdain with this crap.
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21-11-2013, 10:22 AM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
The catholic church used to control the whole province and had to get out of everything.
That crucifix, the last remaining sign of that era, will probably be voted out soon after the secular charter comes into effect since the government has decided to let the assemblée decide itself if they want to keep it.

(10-09-2013 03:32 PM)cjlr Wrote:  For those curious as to the degree of hypocrisy and discrimination here:
note what symbol is stuck above the throne in the Assemblée Nationale

(hint: it's not secular)

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21-11-2013, 10:25 AM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
Sure, a culture trying to survive because it's surrounded by 40 times as many English speakers has to be right wing and racist says an English speaking progressive like you!!!

(11-09-2013 12:18 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  
unsapien Wrote:Interestingly however, as far a I know elected officials will be exempt from this new law.

Well, the NSDAP Parti Quebecois wouldn't want to offend the people they care about.

cjlr Wrote:For those curious as to the degree of hypocrisy and discrimination here:
note what symbol is stuck above the throne in the Assemblée Nationale

Yeah, according to the PQ, it is about "preserving our heritage".

Quebec is in many ways a liberal, left-leaning place. But when it comes to religion and "our unique culture" there is a strong right-wing nationalist streak.
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21-11-2013, 11:37 AM
RE: "Secularism" as a front for religion-motivated laws in Quebec
(21-11-2013 10:18 AM)BetePolitique Wrote:  Are you sure you lived in Montreal?
Those terrorists were only a few guys and there was no need to take away the rights of all Canadians like Trudeau did (something that makes the Patriot act look like candy).
The Parti Quebecois denounced those terrorists and was never violent.
May I point to you that there are only 7 million French Canadians and that if those language laws, which started before the Parti Quebecois even existed, had not been voted decades ago, there would probably be no French in Canada now.
You seem to think that a minority is bullying a crushing majority.

(11-09-2013 02:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  Fucking nationalism, sectarianism, xenophobia, culture war, ...

I lived in Montreal under martial law because French extremists were kidnapping, murdering, and bombing. Fucking FLQ.

They've tried terrorism, they've imposed language laws, now this crap.

Their culture will survive or not based on its value. They only engender anger and disdain with this crap.

Yes, I'm quite sure.
The majority in La Belle Province is Francophone.

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