See-there must be a god!
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22-09-2010, 04:05 PM
RE: See-there must be a god!
Just curious, leaving in a minute and don't know where to put this.
How bout some arguments against hell?
fire is just a moment of chemical freedom, if theres no atoms in hell than we won't feel a thing we'll just be watching the pretty decorations forever. But if it does exist and everything in it is physical, that means all the trapped humans could band together and escape to fresh air. We're immortal remember? so it doesn't matter where we are when we get out because we have all of time to do what we want.

A catholic recently told me theres proof hell exists because the earths core moves faster than the rest of the earth, I tried to explain basic physics to him but it seemed like it went over his head.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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23-09-2010, 03:47 AM
RE: See-there must be a god!
(22-09-2010 04:05 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  A catholic recently told me theres proof hell exists because the earths core moves faster than the rest of the earth, I tried to explain basic physics to him but it seemed like it went over his head.

Yep. Anyone who can't see all the flaws in the bible can't be expected to see anything as complicated as basic physics.
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22-10-2011, 09:40 PM
RE: See-there must be a god!
(22-09-2010 04:05 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  Just curious, leaving in a minute and don't know where to put this.
How bout some arguments against hell?
fire is just a moment of chemical freedom, if theres no atoms in hell than we won't feel a thing we'll just be watching the pretty decorations forever. But if it does exist and everything in it is physical, that means all the trapped humans could band together and escape to fresh air. We're immortal remember? so it doesn't matter where we are when we get out because we have all of time to do what we want.

A catholic recently told me theres proof hell exists because the earths core moves faster than the rest of the earth, I tried to explain basic physics to him but it seemed like it went over his head.

The assumption that there is fire, requires space-time for the combustion process. The "afterlife" assuming there is one, exists OUTSIDE this universe, (and space-time). (Philosophers and Theologians call it The Eternal Now). If space-time is absent, then ANY temporal process which requires time to proceed, is out the window. Thus "suffering", fire, regret, (you-name-it), ALL require the presence of time for their processes to go on. It's ALL totally illogical. Cool

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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23-10-2011, 09:06 AM
RE: See-there must be a god!
Thanks for all the responses. I must admit I just find it frustrating that what seems so blatantly obvious to me is not the norm for society.
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23-10-2011, 04:26 PM
RE: See-there must be a god!
(08-09-2010 08:57 PM)Dave005 Wrote:  Here I go again on another issue. Over the weekend a bunch of old friends got together. Everyone knows there are three athiests in the group. Along came a butterfly. You guessed it-a person stated that something so unique has to be created by god!

Of course that was translated into my religion is correct and on and on. Once again-zero thinking. Connections made without evidence. Sorry-but this gets me. Do they look at the grim conditions part of humanity lives in? Not pretty. Horrors against children-god cares?

They know darn well I am an athiest and threw that out at me as evidence waiting for me to reply. Usually I do-this time I cooled it. What would have been a good response.

Thanks
P.S. Posted this under science as wonders in the universe are many times attributed to a god and not examined scientifically.
I probably could not be those peoples friends...

I do not mind people who have religious beliefs, I just do not like them pushing them onto me or others.

(09-09-2010 02:02 AM)2buckchuck Wrote:  I would ask:
Quote:You believe in your deity because of faith, right? If so, why do you need any evidence for the existence of your deity? Are you trying to convince me or yourselves? If you need convincing, your faith must be pretty weak! Your argument is not convincing to me because science already has an effective explanation for the existence of complex creatures - it's called evolution. Your supposed evidence - that your deity must have created this creature - offers no explanation at all.


Thats an excellent rebuttal. Thx, I will remember that one.
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23-10-2011, 04:44 PM
RE: See-there must be a god!
(23-10-2011 09:06 AM)Dave005 Wrote:  Thanks for all the responses. I must admit I just find it frustrating that what seems so blatantly obvious to me is not the norm for society.

Yes, it is frustrating ... I think that's the nature of codependency.
I have come to view the average Theist as having a codependent personality... and they need to drag everyone into their little drama because for them, that's what life is all about. Dependency on anything outside the self, goes against the very nature of the Atheist.
Theists (as a group) are fascinated by the world but seem to accept a limited view, with no curiosity as to how the world works. A handful of scriptures provides justification for everything and ensures all are living by the same set of rules, which doesn't leave much room for creativity or having a personal opinion, or an original idea. Individuality is suspect unless it is used to express something bigger than the self.
The majority of Atheists I know are fairly independent folk and see no need to look for connection to an identity outside the self. Atheists have a tendency to view the world with fascination, and pursue knowledge of why it works the way it does. If Atheists (as a group) connect at all, it is through a shared curiosity which accepts exploration of independent thought, creativity, and reasoned debate.
Atheists accept reason and can passionately debate original ideas, while Theists reject reason and grasp for intangible, prescribed notions.
The norm...
Personally, I find being around Theists just fine until they want to see "where I stand" or worse, decide I don't fit. And that's when they start to exhaust their welcome. I try to choose my battles because reason cautions: rarely is anything accomplished by helping a dog chase it's own tail.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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23-10-2011, 09:01 PM
RE: See-there must be a god!
Of course there's a god, don't be silly. Her name is Gwyneth Paltrow. Big Grin

I love that poor girl. She serves as a good example of what I call "localized religious nonsense." There ain't nothing passive about my "faith in love," and it ain't a big deal what others think of her. Yet coming over my house and talking smack about my Gwynnies is an invitation to some fisticuffs. Tongue

That's where the difference lies. Those other people are putting their faith before their friendship. I don't have friends like that. I got some Christian friends; they don't pester me about my Gwynnies, I don't pester them about their Jesus. It's a mutual respect kinda thing. Wink

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26-10-2011, 07:10 PM
RE: See-there must be a god!
Tell your friends why did god created that many useless other planets and to have us his children to live on only one? Ask them what does god have against Adam and Steve. Ask them how is god is all knowing when he created Lucifer (a lot of Christians won't know it's Satan.) and why did he just cast him to hell instead of get rid of him and his rebels.

Now a little off, I was about to troll at the title.
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29-10-2011, 03:09 PM
RE: See-there must be a god!
Put a scorpion in his boot.
As he flaps about panicking, point out that it’s one of gods designs and that he can tell him what a great job he did building it in person very shortly.
Offer to pray for an ambulance.

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-11-2011, 06:16 PM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2011 06:24 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: See-there must be a god!
(22-09-2010 04:05 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  Just curious, leaving in a minute and don't know where to put this.
How bout some arguments against hell?

Fuck hell.

The fire shall never be quenched
Their worm shall never die


Know what that is right there? That is the single link, in Mark, from OT to NT. What is it about? Spontaneous generation. Did not science put the smackdown to spontaneous generation?

Here's some old thinking: air, earth, water, fire. A 4. Me likes the 4.
Here's a new twist: O, HO, CHO - 1,2,3, and? Rapid oxidation - time is fire, three dimensions of space. And number rox, while word rules - only fools.

If you wanna test for the 4 in reality - go up to a believer, allow that believer the identity of god - and watch that believer peel himself for insisting on the existence of hell. Good, clean fun. Cool
(22-10-2011 09:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-09-2010 04:05 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  Just curious, leaving in a minute and don't know where to put this.
How bout some arguments against hell?
fire is just a moment of chemical freedom, if theres no atoms in hell than we won't feel a thing we'll just be watching the pretty decorations forever. But if it does exist and everything in it is physical, that means all the trapped humans could band together and escape to fresh air. We're immortal remember? so it doesn't matter where we are when we get out because we have all of time to do what we want.

A catholic recently told me theres proof hell exists because the earths core moves faster than the rest of the earth, I tried to explain basic physics to him but it seemed like it went over his head.

The assumption that there is fire, requires space-time for the combustion process. The "afterlife" assuming there is one, exists OUTSIDE this universe, (and space-time). (Philosophers and Theologians call it The Eternal Now). If space-time is absent, then ANY temporal process which requires time to proceed, is out the window. Thus "suffering", fire, regret, (you-name-it), ALL require the presence of time for their processes to go on. It's ALL totally illogical. Cool

As the Macho Man would say - "Oh, yeah!"

Told people that in the past. If you wake up in hell, check your watch. Tongue
My speculation on discreteness does not prevent the "existence of YHWH;" the form of the Eternal may be "between the spaces of Planck time" and may manifest in the individual as...

Love. And love is the singular force in the known universe that can cause a bunch of chaos - I tell you what. Big Grin

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