Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
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21-05-2015, 07:07 AM
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(20-05-2015 11:53 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  ”According to the law of identity, A is A, and taken together with the primacy of existence this means that A is A independently of anyone's conscious activity. On the Christian world view, A is whatever the ruling consciousness deems it to be.”

No, that’s not right. To say there is an objective reality, is to recognize that reality is independent from my own conscious activity, not conscious activity all together. If your reasoning held true, than I wouldn’t be able to make observations about other people's conscious activity, or develop a theory of mind, reflect on what’s going on in minds other than my own.

Imagine if we were in fact a product of a computer simulation. That some individual far into the future has figured out how to recreate humanity in a computer, and beings who are conscious and aware of their surrounding, able to feel, think, and reason. It’s basically the same situation we’d have if there was a God, where the programmer could just change his world at anytime, his creative capacities are nearly limitless.

What would this mean for us, if we discovered that we are? Surely it would raise all sorts of question. But does that means I could no longer recognize the same computer generated realities as I did previously? No, it doesn’t. I could recognize the difference between myself and the tree, or that the tree exist independent of myself, that the programmer could erase me and leave the tree still there.

Any problem you likely will raise, would be problems of solipsism, but that doesn’t get solved absent of God, anymore so than created by God’s existence.

Quote:The identities of things are not dependent on our conscious activity.

Not to a solipsist. From what I can tell, you seem to argue that if there were a God we’d have no choice but to be solipsist, but if there is no God we wouldn’t be?
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21-05-2015, 02:21 PM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2015 11:56 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(19-05-2015 06:47 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-05-2015 01:31 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So not every animal is capable of human intelligence, but intelligence itself is hardly unique. We see the awareness of self and other problem solving capabilities in our Great Ape cousins, and almost all mammals display varying levels of intelligence; some of which are quite impressive (dolphins, pigs, and elephants come to mind).

When was the last time a dolphin wrote a novel? Understood evolution, and how they developed over billions of years, or how the universe they were a product of came to be?

Do you imagine that one day in the distant future that dolphins, pigs, or elephants will develop to the extent we have, and be capable of the same things we are now? That eventually some sort of ecological niche would arise for them, and allow them to develop our reasoning and creative capacities?

Human intelligence, in it's capacities, and reasoning abilities are entirely unique, entirely one-off, a fluke occurrence, quite unlikely to ever be repeated.

Quote:And yet the universe is old and massive, and rare statistically improbable occurrences happen all the fucking time. Our chances of finding similarly intelligent life are almost non existent, but there almost certainly exists more intelligent life out in the galaxy, let alone the universe.

Yea, I doubt that. We can barely find life on other planets, and even if we did find life on other planet, in some other galaxy, the chances of that life being even remotely intelligent as human beings, let alone more intelligent, is slim to none. We don't even believe that over time other animals on our own planet would independently develop our level of intelligence. We truly are a freak occurrence.


See Also: Narcissism

I love how an uneducated theist with no background in evolution, cosmology, or statistics can speak so fluently on the probability of intelligent life in the universe.

Your reasoning boils down to 'dolphins aren't as smart as us, so nothing can ever be as smart as us'. That's incredibly fucking stupid on multiple levels.

But no, seriously, take your findings to NASA and SETI and tell them to pack it all up and go home. Because you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that we're the best it's ever going to get in the whole fucking universe in terms of intelligence.

Fuck, you're not even close to the top of the pile on this planet, what makes you think you can so swiftly dismiss the entirety of the known universe?

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22-05-2015, 06:22 AM
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(19-05-2015 04:38 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
The Ultimate Guide to Winning an Argument on YouTube!


Step 1

Don't Get Into an Argument on YouTube

I presume that you have seen that little meme about how this sort of thing is a bit like the Special Olympics?
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22-05-2015, 08:53 AM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2015 08:58 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(21-05-2015 02:21 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I love how an uneducated theist with no background in evolution, cosmology, or statistics can speak so fluently on the probability of intelligent life in the universe.

Actually I do have a background in statistics, economics and risk managements to be exact. Not that it matters all that much, but thought I would at least correct that, lol.

Quote:Your reasoning boils down to 'dolphins aren't as smart as us, so nothing can ever be as smarty as us'. That's incredibly fucking stupid on multiple levels.

No, that's not my argument. My argument is primarily in regards to whatever ecological niche that allowed human beings to have our level of intelligence.

"“We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos"

This ecological niche only existed for one creature, while other niches have existed for a variety of other creatures, such as those that allowed eyes to develop over 40 times independently. There's no particular reason even if we're to find life on another planet that has existed as long as life on ours has, to assume that this ecological niche would likely have existed there, or that creatures with our level of intelligence, and awareness, who are "a way of the cosmos to know itself", would have inevitably arose on it.

Quote:But no, seriously, take your findings to NASA and SETI and tell them to pack it all up and go home. Because you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that we're the best it's ever going to get in the whole fucking universe in terms of intelligence.

We are probably are the best it's going to get, not that I believe this beyond a reasonable doubt. But I'd be curious as to how many planets we'd likely come across with life on it, that has been around at least as long as ours, to find one with our level of intelligence or beyond? 100? 1000? A million? You would have to have an answer for that, before assuming any probability here. Any calculation that does not factor in this consideration, is liable to be quite inaccurate.

Quote:Fuck, you're not even close to the top of the pile on this planet, what makes you think you can so swiftly dismiss the entirety of the known universe?

How many gardens do you have to dig before acknowledging there are no fairies under them?
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22-05-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(22-05-2015 08:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-05-2015 02:21 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I love how an uneducated theist with no background in evolution, cosmology, or statistics can speak so fluently on the probability of intelligent life in the universe.

Actually I do have a background in statistics, economics and risk managements to be exact. Not that it matters all that much, but thought I would at least correct that, lol.

Quote:Your reasoning boils down to 'dolphins aren't as smart as us, so nothing can ever be as smarty as us'. That's incredibly fucking stupid on multiple levels.

No, that's not my argument. My argument is primarily in regards to whatever ecological niche that allowed human beings to have our level of intelligence.

"“We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos"

This ecological niche only existed for one creature, while other niches have existed for a variety of other creatures, such as those that allowed eyes to develop over 40 times independently. There's no particular reason even if we're to find life on another planet that has existed as long as life on ours has, to assume that this ecological niche would likely have existed there, or that creatures with our level of intelligence, and awareness, who are "a way of the cosmos to know itself", would have inevitably arose on it.

Quote:But no, seriously, take your findings to NASA and SETI and tell them to pack it all up and go home. Because you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that we're the best it's ever going to get in the whole fucking universe in terms of intelligence.

We are probably are the best it's going to get, not that I believe this beyond a reasonable doubt. But I'd be curious as to how many planets we'd likely come across with life on it, that has been around at least as long as ours, to find one with our level of intelligence or beyond? 100? 1000? A million? You would have to have an answer for that, before assuming any probability here. Any calculation that does not factor in this consideration, is liable to be quite inaccurate.

Quote:Fuck, you're not even close to the top of the pile on this planet, what makes you think you can so swiftly dismiss the entirety of the known universe?

How many gardens do you have to dig before acknowledging there are no fairies under them?

All of the gardens...

And the ecological niche was only filled by one group of creatures. Not just existed for one creature; also of course, Hominids aren't one creature. There is also no logical reason to assume the ecological niche WOULDN'T exist there.

It is actually bad reasoning to make assertive claims like thinking it wouldn't or that "this is probably the best it's going to get" based on such limited data. It's not rational to make conclusions based on the tiniest of data Your data formulation is based on 1/200Sextillion+ potential solar systems. It's significantly worse but relevant to making a conclusion on all Christians based on knowing 1 Christian.

You really ought to grasp the difference between assuming there is and simply not assuming there isn't, as there are distinctions.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-05-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(22-05-2015 09:28 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It is actually bad reasoning to make assertive claims like thinking it wouldn't or that "this is probably the best it's going to get" based on such limited data. It's not rational to make conclusions based on the tiniest of data Your data formulation is based on 1/200Sextillion+ potential solar system

You really ought to grasp the difference between assuming there is and simply not assuming there isn't, as there are distinctions.


"We are alone in the universe: Professor Brian Cox says alien life is all but impossible and humanity is 'unique'

"The biological process which lead to intelligent life on earth was a fluke that is unlikely to have been repeated anywhere else in the universe, claims Professor Brian Cox.
The presenter and scientist blames a series of 'evolutionary bottlenecks' for the lack of extraterrestrial life on other planets, despite there being a mind-bogglingly vast number of them in the galaxy.

Humanity miraculously overcame them in a chance binding of two single cells merging somewhere in the mists of time, he said.

'There is only one advanced technological civilisation in this galaxy and there has only ever been one - and that's us. We are unique.

'It's a dizzying thought. There are billions of planets out there, surely there must have been a second genesis?

'But we must be careful because the story of life on this planet shows that the transition from single-celled life to complex life may not have been inevitable.'
He made the claims in an episode of BBC's Human Universe, adding that yet another freak occurrence - the meteor which wiped out the dinosaurs - allowed mammals and ultimately humanity to dominate the planet.

On the subject of the genesis of complex life, he added: 'We still struggle to understand how this happened. It's incredibly unusual.

'We're confident this only happened once in the oceans of the primordial earth.Life here did squeeze through.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...z3atE24fwf

I mean the arrogance of this atheists scientist douce?
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22-05-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(22-05-2015 08:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(21-05-2015 02:21 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I love how an uneducated theist with no background in evolution, cosmology, or statistics can speak so fluently on the probability of intelligent life in the universe.

Actually I do have a background in statistics, economics and risk managements to be exact. Not that it matters all that much, but thought I would at least correct that, lol.

Quote:Your reasoning boils down to 'dolphins aren't as smart as us, so nothing can ever be as smarty as us'. That's incredibly fucking stupid on multiple levels.

No, that's not my argument. My argument is primarily in regards to whatever ecological niche that allowed human beings to have our level of intelligence.

"“We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos"

This ecological niche only existed for one creature, while other niches have existed for a variety of other creatures, such as those that allowed eyes to develop over 40 times independently. There's no particular reason even if we're to find life on another planet that has existed as long as life on ours has, to assume that this ecological niche would likely have existed there, or that creatures with our level of intelligence, and awareness, who are "a way of the cosmos to know itself", would have inevitably arose on it.

Quote:But no, seriously, take your findings to NASA and SETI and tell them to pack it all up and go home. Because you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, that we're the best it's ever going to get in the whole fucking universe in terms of intelligence.

We are probably are the best it's going to get, not that I believe this beyond a reasonable doubt. But I'd be curious as to how many planets we'd likely come across with life on it, that has been around at least as long as ours, to find one with our level of intelligence or beyond? 100? 1000? A million? You would have to have an answer for that, before assuming any probability here. Any calculation that does not factor in this consideration, is liable to be quite inaccurate.

Quote:Fuck, you're not even close to the top of the pile on this planet, what makes you think you can so swiftly dismiss the entirety of the known universe?

How many gardens do you have to dig before acknowledging there are no fairies under them?


Hey dumbass, when are you going to learn that incredulity is not an argument? Facepalm

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22-05-2015, 12:31 PM
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(22-05-2015 11:58 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Hey dumbass,

I didn't realize your toothless hick of a mother was on the forum.
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22-05-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(22-05-2015 11:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-05-2015 09:28 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It is actually bad reasoning to make assertive claims like thinking it wouldn't or that "this is probably the best it's going to get" based on such limited data. It's not rational to make conclusions based on the tiniest of data Your data formulation is based on 1/200Sextillion+ potential solar system

You really ought to grasp the difference between assuming there is and simply not assuming there isn't, as there are distinctions.


"We are alone in the universe: Professor Brian Cox says alien life is all but impossible and humanity is 'unique'

"The biological process which lead to intelligent life on earth was a fluke that is unlikely to have been repeated anywhere else in the universe, claims Professor Brian Cox.
The presenter and scientist blames a series of 'evolutionary bottlenecks' for the lack of extraterrestrial life on other planets, despite there being a mind-bogglingly vast number of them in the galaxy.

Humanity miraculously overcame them in a chance binding of two single cells merging somewhere in the mists of time, he said.

'There is only one advanced technological civilisation in this galaxy and there has only ever been one - and that's us. We are unique.

'It's a dizzying thought. There are billions of planets out there, surely there must have been a second genesis?

'But we must be careful because the story of life on this planet shows that the transition from single-celled life to complex life may not have been inevitable.'
He made the claims in an episode of BBC's Human Universe, adding that yet another freak occurrence - the meteor which wiped out the dinosaurs - allowed mammals and ultimately humanity to dominate the planet.

On the subject of the genesis of complex life, he added: 'We still struggle to understand how this happened. It's incredibly unusual.

'We're confident this only happened once in the oceans of the primordial earth.Life here did squeeze through.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...z3atE24fwf

I mean the arrogance of this atheists scientist douce?

Yeah so? A person can have that view. Doesn't mean I also don't think Brian Cox is a pretty sexy scientist. Who explains ideas like entropy and vast ranges of other topics well.

You make more appeals to authorities I've seen anyone do. It's not always a wrong step but you do it constantly which is rather interesting. Is he capable of being wrong? Yes. Am I, yes? Are you? Yes.

Could I go google up a different physicist who does believe there are life on other planets? Or even theist scientists who did? Sure. That's why it's worth pointing out, it's not like oh wow I didn't know an atheist scientist could hold such a thought. Of course it's a position that can be held. It doesn't prove or demonstrate anything it's just a case without an augment by you.

It's not a definitive factor still, and I still don't see any definitive factor to absolutely know fairies don't exist either.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-05-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Seeking more help vs Christian YouTuber
(22-05-2015 02:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You make more appeals to authorities I've seen anyone do. It's not always a wrong step but you do it constantly which is rather interesting. Is he capable of being wrong? Yes. Am I, yes? Are you? Yes.

Well, your damned if your do, damned if you don't.

Evolution Kills: "I love how an uneducated theist with no background in evolution, cosmology, or statistics can speak so fluently on the probability of intelligent life in the universe."

I cite individuals who have a strong backgrounds in these areas, primarly to combat those who think that only "an uneducated theist with no background" in these areas, would claim these things. Or those who think that since I lack this background, that I have no business putting my two cents into it.
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