Selective Evolution
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07-06-2011, 09:17 PM
 
RE: Selective Evolution
Yes, his own sins. Power doesn't free one from the consequences of their actions. Rather, power and the increased ability to act that comes from it burdens one with the weight of exponential consequences for such numerous actions.

I have heard it said that God does not murder, he executes. Thus it is morally sound. I have also heard it said that God cannot steal, because everything belongs to him. If any government set up laws to govern its people, and then broke those laws claiming that it was immune to the consequences because it created the laws, was above the law, its people would eventually rise in revolt and tear down such a government.

As we see happening throughout the middle east.

Sometimes I think, were Lucifer real, I would empathize with his desire to unseat the despot. We routinely see mass genocide, infanticide, order of mass rape, human sacrifice, wanton disregard for life, property, and any sane sense of justice throughout the bible. For anyone. Anyone in any position in any point of time in any context in history, such a person would be branded Evil. God is no exception. Nor should be he excused as such. God is supposed to be held as an example of perfection, not an exemption from the statures that define it.

What it might like to be omnipotent? To be all powerful, to be all powerful with access to every scrap of knowledge of all things that might, have, could, could never be; Such a being could accomplish its goals with such benevolent grace that no man could ever question either its nature or existence.

Were such a being to exist, all powerful all knowing all present, it would have no need to sin.
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10-08-2011, 09:38 PM
 
RE: Selective Evolution
Hi Cube, as a recovering creationist and former fundamentalist Christian of 10 years now, I am well qualified to address your question - although if it has already been answered in a satisfactory way, please disregard! Blush

Here is the reality of the situation...

You have to appreciate what's at stake for many Christians to even consider evolution. The Garden of Eden is where original sin took place, and if evolution takes original sin out of the picture, it undermines the entire life and message of Jesus, and therefore the entire foundation of Christianity.

Secondly, Christians KNOW - more than many apathetic individuals - the limitations of current scientific enquiry. No matter how much evidence you provide, they know it is incomplete and that one day new information might come out that recontextualises everything in Christianity's favour. For this reason, I don't believe a chart of human evolutionary history will convince a Creationist of anything. As your work friend pointed out, Christians believe they are made in the image of God, they believe they are "in this world but not of this world." In other words, not only do they not feel like an animal, they barely feel human! They are aliens, spiritual souls wrapped in flesh, passing briefly through on their way to eternity with God.

From personal experience, observation, and experiment, I've found you can only take people to their own "next right step". Rarely if ever do we have the good fortune to shatter one's entire worldview Cool So the best you can really ever hope for is to turn them into an evolutionary Christian.

The best point of entry here may well be Noah's Flood. The flood account is the only explanation Creationists have for the fossil record, and if you can point out the irrationality of Noah's Ark and the Global Flood, you may have found the first chink in their dogmatic armour. For this discussion, I would arm myself with nothing less than Ian Plimer's book "Telling Lies for God." There are other online resources of course - just google "evolutionary Christian."

At this point, like any good sales pitch, it becomes emotional. If the person has been increasingly dissatisfied with Christianity, if they feel Christianity is stifling them on any of these three levels - their faith community, their relationship with God, or their self-development, then they may be open to new ideas. If not, all you can do is wish them well.

And on that note - I wish you well! Smile
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11-08-2011, 11:37 AM
RE: Selective Evolution
Difficult situation. People have a hard time viewing themselves as animals. We are a social animal with a superior intelligence but they don't always like that since it still implies the word "animal."

Consider the pictures below. Which looks more human: an adult chimp or a baby chimp? It is pretty obvious that with the flatter face and the large brain case that the baby chimpanzee looks remarkably similar to a human adult. Why is that? Paedogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedogenesis). This is the retention of juvenile traits in descended lineages. The flatter face and enlarged brain case relative to the rest of the head are characteristics we share with chimps because our common ancestor had juveniles that looked like the chimpanzee baby. Leading us to reason that the chimp is more closely related to the common ancestor than we are. There is also DNA evidence as well as social behavior, but pictures sometimes say more.

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11-08-2011, 01:10 PM
RE: Selective Evolution
Quote:



bahaha thats fucking great.

"In real life , as opposed to that happy, clappy, rainbow fantasy world that you see fit to fly through´╗┐ on your winged unicorn of delusion" - Mitchell and Webb
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22-11-2011, 03:04 PM
 
RE: Selective Evolution
(07-06-2011 03:57 PM)Spectre Wrote:  I think the problem with a lot of people is that they don't think of what it might be like to be omnipotent.
Like the "moderators" at evolutionfairytale? It is easy to fancy oneself a great 'debater' when one simply censors opposing viewpoints.
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22-11-2011, 04:01 PM
RE: Selective Evolution
Evolutionisafairytale admin/moderator

"I disagree with your well-stated and properly-sourced argument...
*deletes posts
*bans user
There we go....much better now."

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