Seth vs his old boss
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18-07-2013, 12:24 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
Well he and Seth are acquaintances and have a considerable history together so going for the jugular would have been in bad taste. I never found the guy to be arrogant and condescending, just typically ignorant of a fundamentalist Christian.

And in all my own dealing a with Mr Andrews, I've always found him to be a pretty good natured person and seems like someone who would be difficult to anger. So I doubt he would invite the guy on his show, then deliberately make a fool out of him on the air.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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18-07-2013, 12:37 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
It's not about being angry. I don't think he'd bring him on deliberately to make a fool out of him. (He's too kind a person for that, and of course that's a good thing)

David did a very good job of showing he is a fool all on his own, without -any- help from Seth.

Its about standing up to religious people when they rant on and on and on.

It's physically painful to me every time Seth stays quiet whenever that man says "hold on" and then continues to blabber on his nonsense Which happens near constantly through the whole podcast (from what I've heard so far) or interrupts Seth on nearly everything he tries to say.

I am -very- tired of this mindset that we as atheists must be meek and respectful when we are getting chewed on and bashed on and schooled on the "truth", or to turn the other cheek, so to speak.

But then again I'm tired and grumpy, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with my hostile feelings towards him right now.

The Out Crowd.
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18-07-2013, 12:58 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
I can't imagine Seth being anything but a class act. I'm gonna give it a listen now.

Ɨ͚͙͢͟͠Ŧ̯͔̳̺̬̣̻ͅ ͖̬̰͖̺Ŧ̭̻̲̳̝̦̗Ⱥ̹̩͚͘͠͡Ꝁ̷͖̲͓̖͍̺̻Ɇ̧͈̟̞S̨̢̟̥̮­͇͈͓͉͉̣ ̶̵̪̜̪̰͕̙̱̜Ⱥ̧̝͉̕Ł̰̤̲͠Ø̨̡̯͍͙̩̭̦̦͔͔͟Ŧ̵̠̣̬̝ͅ­̬͓͚ ̮͍͙Ŧ̷͍͖̳̺͕̲̬͚͜ͅØ̷̷̳̗̠̻ ̻̪M͉̠͟Ⱥ͏̫̳̣Ꝁ̶̷̜̪͈̪Ɇ̧̦̳̻̘͙̗͉̠ ̨̯͉͙͚̫͓̜̗̗͝͝Ⱥ̡͎̳̤͚ ̴̰̥̩͎̜̣̗̕ͅS̢͈Ŧ͕͉͓͚͔Ɇ͕̙͉̫͓͉͈̖͞ͅW҉̗̖̟̳́ ̢͕̲̰͔́͞
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18-07-2013, 03:32 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
I don't mind if the guest chooses to think of religion as "how Man deals with God." It's probably close enough of a definition for casual and imprecise conversation. What bothers me is that he keeps trying to force that definition where it doesn't fit so as to take advantage of the equivocation that results: Atheists oppose religion, but atheism is a religion, too, so atheism is inherently contradictory. I won't claim that theists are the only people in the world who try to win arguments by controlling the language and terminology -- everyone does it to some extent -- but theists seem to rely on it far more heavily. I think they know that they need more than that to actually win, but if they can grind meaningful conversation to a halt, they feel they can force a stalemate.

The best counter I've heard to the "atheism is just another religion" claim is Sam Harris' description of religion simply being a failed science. Theists aren't entirely crazy to see a similarity between atheism and religion, but it's not about "how Man deals with God." It's about how Man attempts to describe how the universe works. (Technically, atheism simply rejects the god hypothesis and doesn't proceed to posit another one in its place, but since most atheists are also pro-science, it's not a quibble worth getting mired in; the association of atheism with science is a stereotype that suits me fine.) Atheism has a passing resemblance to religion because religion has a passing resemblance to science, inasmuch as they both attempt to explain the world we live in.

One thing we could probably do better is clarify what science really means in the first place. Theists seem to like to point out where "science" has been wrong, when what they mean is that some belief within the scientific establishment has turned out to be wrong. Science isn't the body of knowledge, but the process by which this knowledge is gained through the collection and analysis of evidence, and this process is actually proven right whenever a previously-held belief is disproved.
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18-07-2013, 07:43 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(18-07-2013 12:37 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  It's physically painful to me every time Seth stays quiet whenever that man says "hold on" and then continues to blabber on his nonsense Which happens near constantly through the whole podcast (from what I've heard so far) or interrupts Seth on nearly everything he tries to say.

This is what bothered me as well. Giving him enough rope to hang himself if one thing, but this guy, IMO, had no desire to have a 2 way talk with Seth. He was really disrespectful-the constant interrupting, correcting Seth in mid-sentence then not allowing for him to finish his thought, twisting of concepts re: christianity and the christian religion, god is in me- I am in god. pleeze.

I think Seth let him go on because of their history- I hope he doesn't continue to give others so much leeway.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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18-07-2013, 07:48 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
I agree with most of you. Both in that Seth showed extraordinary patience and that David was a prick. If a complete transcription of the back and forth was made you can easily spot several times he contradicted himself, several more times when he made no sense at all, and several where he was being a dick.

Perhaps Seth thought that this guy was a lost cause that's why he contented himself with addressing his so called points for the benefit of the listeners who quite possible were still on the fence. Hopefully most of those realize something as a result of this podcast.

Even though I also found it tedious to listen to David, I just focused on the lolz in his arguments, although a fair few did make me flinch. More from stupidity than anything else. It kinda feels like snot being thrown at your face. Tongue


If you don't want a sarcastic answer, don't ask stupid questions. Drinking Beverage
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18-07-2013, 08:02 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
I was really looking forward to hearing this particular interview. Now that I've heard it. I'm a little more dead inside now.

I'm curious if this guy has a tremendous ego. More than once he said "are you saying your smarter than me" He does not strike me as someone who likes to be confronted and told that his opinion may be the wrong one.

Whenever Seth tried to confront him about the problems in the bible he would say that he hadn't mentioned the bible and was curious why Seth was even bringing it up. Well, I'm sorry but when debating a christian the bible will get brought up eventually. From what I could tell he is very aware of the problems in the bible and did not want to deal with Seth taking him to task on specific passages.

I think Seth was overly nice to his old boss and let the guy ramble on and on. The guy interrupted so many times I lost count.

Overall great job done by Seth. Maybe next time, if you ever have the guy on again you can bring the hammer down on him. Better yet have Aron Ra waiting in the wings to drop a knowledge bomb on him.
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18-07-2013, 08:38 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(18-07-2013 08:02 AM)Threesheets Wrote:  Overall great job done by Seth. Maybe next time, if you ever have the guy on again you can bring the hammer down on him. Better yet have Aron Ra waiting in the wings to drop a knowledge bomb on him.

This

The Out Crowd.
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18-07-2013, 09:57 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
Wow!!! That guy was a constant facepalm! This is why I don't try to convince my xtian friends and family the error of their ways. Belief for them is usually a powerful emotional event that happened somewhere in their past. They're hooked on that "feeling" and that is the one thing that they can't deny. That emotional event is what makes it real rendering logic and rationality about their belief utterly useless in a confrontational discussion. I simply plant seeds when I can and tell folks, when I'm asked, that I've eliminated all mysticism from my life.

Them: "Jesus = mysticism?"
Me: "It is if you'll think about it"

Really what I'm doing is labeling emotion or feeling as the mystical part. I try to point out that religion all over the world is part of the human condition to bring meaning to things that we don't understand. If your belief makes sense to you, that's fine, mine makes sense to me also when I eliminate the mysticism. I've read the whole bible but I'm not a scholar and can't argue all of the mumbo jumbo about it except to point out that revelation without first hand account is only secondhand information and can't be relied upon completely. I told a good xtian friend of mine the other day that it *feels* good to go throughout each day without the idea that there's a god that loves me so much that he created a special place called hell just in case I didn't love him back. It got him thinking.

Ɨ͚͙͢͟͠Ŧ̯͔̳̺̬̣̻ͅ ͖̬̰͖̺Ŧ̭̻̲̳̝̦̗Ⱥ̹̩͚͘͠͡Ꝁ̷͖̲͓̖͍̺̻Ɇ̧͈̟̞S̨̢̟̥̮­͇͈͓͉͉̣ ̶̵̪̜̪̰͕̙̱̜Ⱥ̧̝͉̕Ł̰̤̲͠Ø̨̡̯͍͙̩̭̦̦͔͔͟Ŧ̵̠̣̬̝ͅ­̬͓͚ ̮͍͙Ŧ̷͍͖̳̺͕̲̬͚͜ͅØ̷̷̳̗̠̻ ̻̪M͉̠͟Ⱥ͏̫̳̣Ꝁ̶̷̜̪͈̪Ɇ̧̦̳̻̘͙̗͉̠ ̨̯͉͙͚̫͓̜̗̗͝͝Ⱥ̡͎̳̤͚ ̴̰̥̩͎̜̣̗̕ͅS̢͈Ŧ͕͉͓͚͔Ɇ͕̙͉̫͓͉͈̖͞ͅW҉̗̖̟̳́ ̢͕̲̰͔́͞
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18-07-2013, 10:58 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(18-07-2013 12:16 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  He says to Seth to rewind and listen to himself.

I hope the guest listens to it and takes notes to.

Crickets
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