Seth vs his old boss
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23-07-2013, 07:42 PM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(23-07-2013 07:39 PM)RollerGirl Wrote:  The first portion of the Seth and his boss podcast made me want to scream. I wanted so much for Seth to give him a "Hitch Slap" - which I know he could have on several occasions. Then I truly started to listen to Seth's points as opposed to David's endless "I can't do anything for myself without Jesus because I am so unworthy," meanderings. I realized by Seth letting David go on and on and tendiously on, listeners would grow SKEPTICAL. Kudos to you Seth for emmence patience dealing with your old Boss. I didn't like his condescending accusations that you thought you were smarter than him. However, you sure came off as wiser. In the book I follow book, the book of reason, I would much rather have wisdon than intelligence any day. Sorry to jump in so late in the game. I get to listen to the podcasts after I down load them on the weekends.

Just proved that Seth is smarter *chuckle*

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
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23-07-2013, 07:52 PM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(19-07-2013 07:22 AM)itchy8me Wrote:  Among the long list of fallacies david made, one of the biggest and ugliest lies he told was that asking christ into your life will dilute depression.

One of my most depressive times was when i was a christian and the amount of times i asked god to help me are uncountable. What a load of BS.

I hope david wakes up from his deep slumber soon, there is so much to discover and be awed by without the cloud of religion hanging over your mind.

Thank you! I wanted to jump out of my skin when David actually said this. I also suffered from depression years ago as a Catholic and was told to pray to make it go away. After I prayed and it didn't magically go away, I simply felt depressed and guilty for not being worthy of healing. To compound the depression, when it got really bad, I was told by my mother, I didn't pray well enough . As a Christian, I was depressed, unworthy of Jesus' healing and a lousy petitioner.

Christianity taught me this - not just my Catholic religion.
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23-07-2013, 08:12 PM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
I noticed that David tried to prove that Seth really wasn't an Atheist by challenging him to ask "Satan to come into his life." as proof that Seth still believes in 'God'. ". And Seth did ... right there. Over 10,000 people have heard Seth say that now. David doesn't understand that threatening us with eternal hell is like threatening me that he's going to punch me in my aura.

David is very smart and sly. He knows how creationist think and what they want to hear. He compares 'God' creating 'Hell' to a parent punishing their child when the child does something wrong but ignores Seth's point that 'Hell' is ETERNAL. Find me a parent that hits their child non stop, for the rest of the child's life, after taking a cookie from the jar and I'll show you one sick parent.

David tries to twist the point that if you credit 'God' for all the good in the world then you must credit him with the bad too by claiming the rise of secularism is the cause of some kind of down fall he thinks society is going through. The fact is we live in the safest time period of all human history. Just because we see the stuff on TV doesn't mean the world is more dangerous. We are just more aware of violence all around the world not just that which is in our face. So yea it is sad that disturbed people go into a movie theatre and shoot a bunch of people but you are less likely to die or even be seriously hurt from a violent attack today then you would be in any other point in history. If you also consider that we are living much longer these days then we are even more safe. And yes I put this safer times down to science and less religious fundamentalism, amongst other things.

The whole argument of "You don't know if you are right" is crap. He believes in gravity but there is nothing to say that gravity won't 'turn off' tomorrow. But given the evidence we have very strong confidence that it will not only still be here tomorrow but that it will be the same as it was 2 years ago, 2 hundred years ago or even 2 billion years ago. To boot, because of science, we keep getting our measurements of it more and more accurate. As Seth pointed out, science doesn't claim to have everything right but it is the most reliable method of making predictions about the future we have. David's argument is kind of like saying that given two new decks of cards, that should be in the exact same order straight out of the pack, if we flip over the top card in one deck that we shouldn't bet that the top card in the other deck would be the same. That randomly picking a different card is just as valid.

So, like most creationist I've heard talk, David tries to speak the language of philosophy and the theory of knowledge but gets it very wrong, which is fine for his normal audience which don't critically examine anything that goes against their belief.

Seth is very gracious by saying he is not "better" then David and I disagree with Seth there. When it comes to reality and logical arguments Seth is MUCH better then David. It is a fact that some people are "better" then others at some things. And every creationist I've met has been very bad at logical arguments and even getting the facts straight.

David's claim that he can take any child and that child will instantly believe in 'God' when David tells them about 'God' isn't proof of 'God' either. Children will believe just about anything you tell them. Fairies, monsters, the Easter bunny, Santa, witches, warlocks, unicorns, dragons. Just about anything. So taking David's logic all of those must also be true and children would have to "unlearn" them too...which we do. But he ignores Seth's argument that we out grew all those other things but David still clings on to 'God'

Finally David's "Evidence" of Jesus. Sure there might have been a man name 'Jesus' over 2 thousand years ago, which some of the new testament is based off of, but that doesn't make him the 'son of God'. People getting a warm fuzzy feeling today when they think about 'Jesus' isn't proof that he is divine any more then me seeing some woman walking down the street and getting a warm fuzzy feeling makes her a fairy god mother. At least in my case everyone else around can see her at the same time unlike David's personal feelings about Jesus. If David is right then we really need to talk to all those people that have felt they've been abducted by aliens.

Wayne Francis
--"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." A.E.
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23-07-2013, 08:16 PM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(23-07-2013 07:52 PM)RollerGirl Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 07:22 AM)itchy8me Wrote:  Among the long list of fallacies david made, one of the biggest and ugliest lies he told was that asking christ into your life will dilute depression.

One of my most depressive times was when i was a christian and the amount of times i asked god to help me are uncountable. What a load of BS.

I hope david wakes up from his deep slumber soon, there is so much to discover and be awed by without the cloud of religion hanging over your mind.

Thank you! I wanted to jump out of my skin when David actually said this. I also suffered from depression years ago as a Catholic and was told to pray to make it go away. After I prayed and it didn't magically go away, I simply felt depressed and guilty for not being worthy of healing. To compound the depression, when it got really bad, I was told by my mother, I didn't pray well enough . As a Christian, I was depressed, unworthy of Jesus' healing and a lousy petitioner.

Christianity taught me this - not just my Catholic religion.

They just don't get that other people don't need some divine entity to get through life. By David's logic all Atheist should end up killing themselves or at least in unrecoverable depression when that event happens where they 'need Jesus' but never ask Jesus to come into their hearts.

Wayne Francis
--"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." A.E.
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26-07-2013, 08:59 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
What annoyed me most about this debate was the fact that he only got on the show because he claimed he had a new/different perspective, yet in reality didn't even know any atheists bar Seth. Some might say he was just naive but I'm more inclined to say ignorant. He mentioned other religions which he clearly knew nothing about, and repeatedly showed that he wasn't even coming from an informed point of view. I honestly wouldn't like to see another debate in this format on the show.
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28-07-2013, 09:20 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
David's whole spiel - about removing himself from religion, from the man-made construct, and having God take the helm - really is nothing new. I de-converted from Christianity in the summer of 2012 after falling hard and fast into a church that claimed to "remove man from the God equation" and let Jesus stand at the podium instead of the pastor. They emphasized that even though they came together with a love of Christ, we were to lean on Christ foremost and then each other second. Just like David, the church alleged that our true selves are incapable of love, incapable of pulling ourselves out of a depressed state, and of being equal to dregs of society, even though we had been "saved." Only Jesus could fill us with the Spirit that is capable of love, patience, bliss, and righteousness, and only Jesus deserved (and received) credit for good things.

Of course, now I know much better and am much better for it. But you would be surprised at the people who attend this church: people with degrees - with PhDs in Veterinary Science, advanced Accounting Degree majors, the works. These people have high levels of knowledge in their designated fields; they are not necessarily across-the-board stupid, and that's quite scary, especially because to outsiders, their higher learning lends credibility to whatever they say, even if it's refutable.

As for the old spiel that "Atheism is a religion," I can refute this by saying one can be an atheist and still belong to a religion. Buddhists, Jains, Raelians, and LaVeyan Satanists are atheists - that is, they do not believe in a Supreme Creator - but they still adhere to religion. I understand David is referring to non-religious atheists, but we don't all adhere to the same philosophies. We might arrive on common ground sometimes, but we have Marxist atheists, Objectivist atheists, atheists who are into cryptozoology, and so on, so forth.

Even though I used to run the same circle as David, I don't think I'd have had the patience for him that Seth had. David scares me because Christian apologetics sound slick to the average US citizen (apologies that I can't speak to the non-US crowd), and even those with higher learning - that's no guarantee against them being immune from David's way of thinking.
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29-07-2013, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2013 07:03 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(16-07-2013 08:15 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  I caught this weeks podcast where Seth interviews his old boss from KXOJ. This guy was really annoying me with his dodginess. He jumps around from topic to topic and analogy like a meth addled monkey, claims that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, then denies it, and then disowns any claim that the Bible is accurate or correctly covers the life of Jesus.

Basically he defines Christianity, or belief in God for that matter, as a series of vague, happy, undefined feelings.

And then there's the bit about Atheism being a religion. And that science changes all the time. Well that's really the difference between science and religion, isn't it? Science is an adapting, self correcting means of skeptically interrogating the universe to determine how it works whereas religion makes a single assertion about the nature and function of the universe, then bends itself into a pretzel to cover for all of the errors in it. Hell, the Book of Genesis gets it wrong within only a few dozen words by stating that trees existed before the sun did! We have proof today that that's not how planets and solar systems form, but we still cling to that! People like that guy want to make me tear my hair out!

As irritating as that guy was, I enjoyed listening to that show.

I listened to it as I walked to school to take my exams and I listened to it for the two odd hours in between them. (I often re-wind the podcasts and audiobooks I listentoo when I start listening to them after stopping.

Seth was incredibly patient with the guest; though I felt my desire for the ability to punch people through technology to be increasing steadily as the show went on), I have to give Seth kudos for his ability to stay patient and cordial with the guest.
I also have the guest kudos for being able to dodge more often and more swiftly than Ray comfort did during his debate with AronRa (granted the show wasn't a debate, just a discussion).

However, I will say: I would, for once, like to hear Seth really get his fangs out and into the jugular of an opponent. Given his history and knowledge of his beginning religion, I think it is a safe bet to make that Seth would have a vast armoury at his disposal with which to tear into and apart a Christian (in particular) opponent. I would enjoy such a show, it doesn't seem in Set's nature though. It's good that we have people like Seth acting as the kinder face of atheism while others form the main forces and eviscerate the opposing side, but once in a blue moon I think Seth would do well on the front lines in debates, as opposed to his home in the Public Relations Office.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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31-07-2013, 03:25 PM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(23-07-2013 08:12 PM)WayneFrancis Wrote:  He compares 'God' creating 'Hell' to a parent punishing their child when the child does something wrong but ignores Seth's point that 'Hell' is ETERNAL. Find me a parent that hits their child non stop, for the rest of the child's life, after taking a cookie from the jar and I'll show you one sick parent.

Or one very extremely angry one. One that requires a blood sacrifice to dowse his wrath. Oh wait. He still has to have some fun. So he'll just have to burn the whole of creation after the faithful are resurrected and singing hosannas, or moses song, or whatever the song is called.. for all eternity. yay.
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04-08-2013, 02:04 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
(23-07-2013 07:52 PM)RollerGirl Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 07:22 AM)itchy8me Wrote:  Among the long list of fallacies david made, one of the biggest and ugliest lies he told was that asking christ into your life will dilute depression.

One of my most depressive times was when i was a christian and the amount of times i asked god to help me are uncountable. What a load of BS.

I hope david wakes up from his deep slumber soon, there is so much to discover and be awed by without the cloud of religion hanging over your mind.

Thank you! I wanted to jump out of my skin when David actually said this. I also suffered from depression years ago as a Catholic and was told to pray to make it go away. After I prayed and it didn't magically go away, I simply felt depressed and guilty for not being worthy of healing. To compound the depression, when it got really bad, I was told by my mother, I didn't pray well enough . As a Christian, I was depressed, unworthy of Jesus' healing and a lousy petitioner.

Christianity taught me this - not just my Catholic religion.
Yes! I begged and pleaded with Jesus to take the depression away. I thought I must have been unworthy if he was letting me suffer like this. It wasn't until I left religion that I started to recover from the years of guilt and of self-hatred that religion has given to me.

(23-07-2013 08:12 PM)WayneFrancis Wrote:  I noticed that David tried to prove that Seth really wasn't an Atheist by challenging him to ask "Satan to come into his life." as proof that Seth still believes in 'God'. ". And Seth did ... right there. Over 10,000 people have heard Seth say that now. David doesn't understand that threatening us with eternal hell is like threatening me that he's going to punch me in my aura.
I reckon we should start a YouTube channel, atheist asking Satan to come into their lives. I know I've got no qualms about asking that Wink

(23-07-2013 08:12 PM)WayneFrancis Wrote:  David's claim that he can take any child and that child will instantly believe in 'God' when David tells them about 'God' isn't proof of 'God' either. Children will believe just about anything you tell them. Fairies, monsters, the Easter bunny, Santa, witches, warlocks, unicorns, dragons. Just about anything. So taking David's logic all of those must also be true and children would have to "unlearn" them too...which we do. But he ignores Seth's argument that we out grew all those other things but David still clings on to 'God'
Kids believe in Santa, too. And unicorns, and dragons, and the tooth fairy. Doesn't make any of those things real. Unless David is trying to say that there really was a monster living under my bed...

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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04-08-2013, 07:34 AM
RE: Seth vs his old boss
I just listened to the podcast. Seth has an amazing amount of patience! But at one point he did say that things were like that podcast during the ten years that they worked together so I am going to assume the guy has always been a jerk.

I felt almost dizzy with all the talking in circles that was going on. The podcast was almost painful to finish and though I held out hope that Seth would be a little harsher with him, I don't think it would have done any good if he had. That guy David is a walking collection of bumper sticker phrases with no substance behind his words.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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