Setting aside the bullshit
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16-01-2013, 11:08 PM
Setting aside the bullshit
I'm still digging at some of the stupid notions I've been told when I was a Witness. Figured I'd post it here to see what y'all think. There have been some pretty stupid things I've come across, to the point when I was still a lamb, I still thought "Wait, what?". I may post some more things, but since it's late, I'll post one bigger one.

When I was younger, and discussions of Paradise Earth would come up, I would come up with nice fancy-shmancy things I wanted to do there. One was a house. I grew up in a pretty crap boxed one, so having my own built by me was something I looked forward to doing after Armageddon passed.

There was this one guy, a friend of the family and fellow Witness who commented in one of our discussions that if he built a home, it would be one that would last a long time. That way, he wouldn't have to end up building as often. Now for those who don't know, the thought was that Paradise Earth would be there eternally. It didn't make sense even back then, to me. He may have had more of a space time in between, but he still would be building his home over and over again for eternity, same as everyone else.

I swear, there is a huge gap in brains when it comes to applications of The Real World and the Paradise Earth version that was concocted.

I'll come out with it: I'm wanting to make a video on youtube discussing
some of the things I used to believe and that I now don't. Anybody able to help me build on this? I'm pretty sure there'll be math involved in this. Maybe some physics as well. I am no expert on either subject. I want to present it factually and correctly for the public, and that's where I've chickened out, because I fear I'd get things wrong. I guess I'm sort of stumped on how to convey this response to something I heard years ago, as has been clearly shown by me to me from writing a draft on it. I found a lot of plot holes and fear I'd bite off more than I can chew in one video.

Anyways, thanks, and I hope your brains didn't hurt too much with this thread.

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16-01-2013, 11:22 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
I've always been a bit fascinated with JW....I once knew a girl who said she didn't celebrate her birthday, or any birthday....seemed rather odd to me.

So you literally have to build your own house? Hmmm....


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Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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16-01-2013, 11:27 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
(16-01-2013 11:22 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I've always been a bit fascinated with JW....I once knew a girl who said she didn't celebrate her birthday, or any birthday....seemed rather odd to me.

So you literally have to build your own house? Hmmm....
Strangely enough, its one of the selling points. Pretty sure I'd still be stuck with a crap one in the beginning - clearing all that debris from Armageddon was a task for set for 1000 years.

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16-01-2013, 11:31 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
Hey Cheap, how long ago were you shunned ? 'Cos it sounds kinda recent... since you joined the forum ?
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16-01-2013, 11:36 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
(16-01-2013 11:08 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  When I was younger, and discussions of Paradise Earth would come up, I would come up with nice fancy-shmancy things I wanted to do there. One was a house. I grew up in a pretty crap boxed one, so having my own built by me was something I looked forward to doing after Armageddon passed.

Aww, man. Sad I remember that. Sitting around daydreaming about all the awesome things you'd do with your new-found perfection in a big, open world. I hadn't thought of it until you said it, but now I actually kind of miss it. Blush

Anyway, one thing that always confused me was the matter of perfection. I often asked my mom what one could do as a perfect entity, and her answers would contradict the concept of perfection. To illustrate; I'd always ask if I'd be able to touch fire, or jump off of a mountain and not be killed ("death and pain will be no more", after all). She'd tell me that I'd still be a human being and fire would still be fire. Her excuse was that if I was "stupid enough" to jump off a mountain or touch fire, Jehovah might allow that to hurt me (???). Even as a child, I would counter this flawed logic with the fact that perfection is perfection. A truly perfect being cannot be harmed, because that is an imperfect trait brought on by Satan's system of things.

In 20 years, I never got an adequate answer to this.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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16-01-2013, 11:38 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
(16-01-2013 11:31 PM)morondog Wrote:  Hey Cheap, how long ago were you shunned ? 'Cos it sounds kinda recent... since you joined the forum ?

I was shunned awhile back, but my parents still feel the need to talk to me. Just a week back I got contacted by my sister and father. Funny thing is I haven't seen them shunned by their community for talking to me. It's what they say they do. As for not believing anymore, that's more recent. I was wanting to go back even though I was being shunned simply because I had lost everything I knew. Luckily I gained myself back, and that's why I came here.

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16-01-2013, 11:43 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
(16-01-2013 11:36 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 11:08 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  When I was younger, and discussions of Paradise Earth would come up, I would come up with nice fancy-shmancy things I wanted to do there. One was a house. I grew up in a pretty crap boxed one, so having my own built by me was something I looked forward to doing after Armageddon passed.

Aww, man. Sad I remember that. Sitting around daydreaming about all the awesome things you'd do with your new-found perfection in a big, open world. I hadn't thought of it until you said it, but now I actually kind of miss it. Blush

Anyway, one thing that always confused me was the matter of perfection. I often asked my mom what one could do as a perfect entity, and her answers would contradict the concept of perfection. To illustrate; I'd always ask if I'd be able to touch fire, or jump off of a mountain and not be killed ("death and pain will be no more", after all). She'd tell me that I'd still be a human being and fire would still be fire. Her excuse was that if I was "stupid enough" to jump off a mountain or touch fire, Jehovah might allow that to hurt me (???). Even as a child, I would counter this flawed logic with the fact that perfection is perfection. A truly perfect being cannot be harmed, because that is an imperfect trait brought on by Satan's system of things.

In 20 years, I never got an adequate answer to this.
I've had similar answers. That's what I want to tackle, with what's been given to me as "answers". I want to poke holes at them, add maybe some bits of maths, physics, or hell, just humor. It's just not knowing much of the first two. It's late, and I have to get my ass into bed, but tomorrow I'll post a crappy graph I made awhile ago to illustrate the nonsense of what I found with the whole "Building a home forever". It may be real simple to some people, but I was never encouraged to think outside the box back then.

P.S. I definitely get the 'missing' part.

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16-01-2013, 11:44 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
(16-01-2013 11:38 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  I was shunned awhile back, but my parents still feel the need to talk to me. Just a week back I got contacted by my sister and father. Funny thing is I haven't seen them shunned by their community for talking to me. It's what they say they do. As for not believing anymore, that's more recent. I was wanting to go back even though I was being shunned simply because I had lost everything I knew. Luckily I gained myself back, and that's why I came here.

Sad What were you shunned for (if it's not impolite to ask) ? I assumed it was for not being a believer any more.

I'm guessing they haven't let the others know they're in contact with you ? But such a double standard wouldn't surprise me even if they had - the *first* rule of any church is submission to authority, and if those in authority have some nice dirt on them then they can hold the threat of shunning over their heads to keep them *outwardly* supporting the church. The formula is 'I know you're a dirty sinner but we'll say nothing about it because she is your daughter after all. Now about those tithes...' Find a lever -> yank it. How most power games seem to work Dodgy
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16-01-2013, 11:49 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
The problem is that apologetics will most certainly come into play. You could go on to talk about the laws of thermodynamics and how the guy would have to build his house over and over because it will inevitably deteriorate, but in turn, the apologists will argue that entropy and deterioration are just part of this old system of things; caused by Adam and Eve when they sinned. They'll say that in Jehovah's perfect paradise, deterioration will not occur.

We have to poke holes in the Adam-and-Eve argument of imperfection, first. Then we can go on to poke holes in their arguments about building houses and such.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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16-01-2013, 11:51 PM
RE: Setting aside the bullshit
(16-01-2013 11:38 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  
(16-01-2013 11:31 PM)morondog Wrote:  Hey Cheap, how long ago were you shunned ? 'Cos it sounds kinda recent... since you joined the forum ?

I was shunned awhile back, but my parents still feel the need to talk to me. Just a week back I got contacted by my sister and father. Funny thing is I haven't seen them shunned by their community for talking to me. It's what they say they do. As for not believing anymore, that's more recent. I was wanting to go back even though I was being shunned simply because I had lost everything I knew. Luckily I gained myself back, and that's why I came here.

Your parents are allowed to contact you, but not vice-versa? Thats terrible Sad
My mom's family aren't JW but I was shunned too when they realized I was one of those non-believing people...


[Image: mrhanky.jpg]

Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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