Seventh Day Adventists?
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04-02-2016, 07:58 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
(04-02-2016 07:44 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(03-02-2016 12:26 PM)Zog Has-fallen Wrote:  For those willing to examine the theory, the axiom set of the Confessing Millerite Adventists has profound implications.

There's no evidence for it.

Sure there is. It's just that many prefer to close their minds and slight thoughtful examination instead of confronting challenging paradigms.
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04-02-2016, 08:08 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
From Wikipedia:

Quote:The "three angels' messages" is an interpretation of the messages given by three angels in Revelation 14:6–12. The Seventh-day Adventist church teaches that these messages are given to prepare the world for the second coming of Jesus Christ, and sees them as a central part of its own mission.

wiki linky

According to Bart Erhman, The Book of Revelation is an example of apocalyptic fiction, a writing style common in biblical times. The hidden meanings can be attributed to jabs at Nero and the Roman Empire which was persecuting christianity at the time.

I don't see the connection between advanced mathematics and literature written by oppressed people seeking to make their oppressed brethren feel better.

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04-02-2016, 08:19 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
Been following along.

First: Hello Zog Has-fallen! Big Grin

(04-02-2016 07:58 AM)Zog Has-fallen Wrote:  
(04-02-2016 07:44 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  There's no evidence for it.

Sure there is. It's just that many prefer to close their minds and slight thoughtful examination instead of confronting challenging paradigms.

Second: Laugh out load

Ah, the old 'Non-believers have hardened their hearts/closed their minds' trope.

Laugh out load

Thank you, thank you very much for the laugh.

So... again for those grey of hair and slow of mind, might yourself (Zog) share this 'amazing' information that one such as myself might peruse it and hence be enlightened (possibly) by such?

Much cheers to all.
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04-02-2016, 08:30 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
The Fundamental Beliefs of Millerite Adventists:

1. God is the most thrilling thing in the universe. He is the greatest being that could exist without contradiction with maximally infinite divine attributes. Thus, it's inconceivable that God could be more wonderful, more holy, more righteous, more loving, more merciful, more gracious, more powerful, more knowledgeable, more infallible, etc. etc. than He already is.

2. God is the source of all things and the Son of God is the agent through whom all things have come.

3. The Son of God and the Spirit of God are God's Representatives.

4. The Bible is God's primary revelation to the church and it trumps all the ecclesiastical councils of the church. The Scriptures are a universal creed for all true Christians.

5. Conditional prophecy, conditional immortality and conditional salvation are extraordinarily compelling Biblical doctrines.

6. The righteous have been saved by grace through faith. We are to have a faith-filled life.

8. The ministry of the Spirit is incomparably more glorious than the stipulations of Old Testament law.

9. Many of God's Old Testament laws and covenants emphasized symbolic rites that foreshadowed a new paradigm of unexpected spiritual truths etc.

10. Jesus Christ is the culmination of all revelation, especially what is written in the Law and the Prophets.

11. The body of Christ will be enlightened, perfected and united through truth just before the Second Coming of Christ.

12. There is a powerful, heretofore unrecognized fundamental principle of prophetic interpretation, which is illustrated in the Constitution of Israel.

Jesus fucking Christ, is there no end to primate stupidity and credulity? Laughat

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-02-2016, 08:53 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
(04-02-2016 07:58 AM)Zog Has-fallen Wrote:  
(04-02-2016 07:44 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  There's no evidence for it.

Sure there is. It's just that many prefer to close their minds and slight thoughtful examination instead of confronting challenging paradigms.

Present your evidence or STFU. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
(04-02-2016 07:58 AM)Zog Has-fallen Wrote:  
(04-02-2016 07:44 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  There's no evidence for it.

Sure there is. It's just that many prefer to close their minds and slight thoughtful examination instead of confronting challenging paradigms.

No. You're using the word "axiom" incorrectly.

Mathematics are axiomatic because we define them to describe observably true events. 1 + 1 = 2 precisely because we define it that way. Taking two individual apples and pairing them always does the same thing, and we have codified a succinct way to communicate that fact. That is an axiom.

You're making baseless assumptions that can only be gleaned by "opening your mind, man", and that cannot be verified or demonstrated in any reasonable way. That is not an axiom. You're misusing the term to lend undeserved credence to your claims. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't be dishonest about it.
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04-02-2016, 10:56 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
(04-02-2016 08:08 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  According to Bart Erhman, The Book of Revelation is an example of apocalyptic fiction, a writing style common in biblical times.

So, between one person that tells you that the book of Revelation is fiction and me telling you that the Revelation is extraordinarily profound, you choose to believe that the book is gibberish.
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04-02-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
(04-02-2016 08:30 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The Fundamental Beliefs of Millerite Adventists:

1. God is the most thrilling thing in the universe. He is the greatest being that could exist without contradiction with maximally infinite divine attributes. Thus, it's inconceivable that God could be more wonderful, more holy, more righteous, more loving, more merciful, more gracious, more powerful, more knowledgeable, more infallible, etc. etc. than He already is.

2. God is the source of all things and the Son of God is the agent through whom all things have come.

3. The Son of God and the Spirit of God are God's Representatives.

4. The Bible is God's primary revelation to the church and it trumps all the ecclesiastical councils of the church. The Scriptures are a universal creed for all true Christians.

5. Conditional prophecy, conditional immortality and conditional salvation are extraordinarily compelling Biblical doctrines.

6. The righteous have been saved by grace through faith. We are to have a faith-filled life.

8. The ministry of the Spirit is incomparably more glorious than the stipulations of Old Testament law.

9. Many of God's Old Testament laws and covenants emphasized symbolic rites that foreshadowed a new paradigm of unexpected spiritual truths etc.

10. Jesus Christ is the culmination of all revelation, especially what is written in the Law and the Prophets.

11. The body of Christ will be enlightened, perfected and united through truth just before the Second Coming of Christ.

12. There is a powerful, heretofore unrecognized fundamental principle of prophetic interpretation, which is illustrated in the Constitution of Israel.

Jesus fucking Christ, is there no end to primate stupidity and credulity? Laughat

This is the 21st century, we are sending probes to the very egde of our solar system and beyond, we are starting to heat up the first nuclear fusion reactors, which will soon provide humanity with unknown amounts of energy to use...
....and some peole are seriously occupied with such utter nonsense?
It took humanity at least tens of thousands of years since the first almost-still-an-ape picked up a stick and used it as a tool, and then, at the end ( until now) this?

I really hope we never get visited by some advanced alien visitors, else i have to be really embarassed for people like this having the same genetic code i do.
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04-02-2016, 11:12 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
(04-02-2016 10:56 AM)Zog Has-fallen Wrote:  
(04-02-2016 08:08 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  According to Bart Erhman, The Book of Revelation is an example of apocalyptic fiction, a writing style common in biblical times.

So, between one person that tells you that the book of Revelation is fiction and me telling you that the Revelation is extraordinarily profound, you choose to believe that the book is gibberish.

Well Ehrman has some serious credentials and credibility. What are yours?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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04-02-2016, 11:23 AM
RE: Seventh Day Adventists?
(04-02-2016 10:33 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(04-02-2016 07:58 AM)Zog Has-fallen Wrote:  Sure there is. It's just that many prefer to close their minds and slight thoughtful examination instead of confronting challenging paradigms.

No. You're using the word "axiom" incorrectly.

Mathematics are axiomatic because we define them to describe observably true events. 1 + 1 = 2 precisely because we define it that way. Taking two individual apples and pairing them always does the same thing, and we have codified a succinct way to communicate that fact. That is an axiom.

And in fact, a great deal of mathematics consists of playing with axioms - testing the consequences of different sets, establishing precise and unambiguous definitions, the like. As an example, the roots of arithmetic are (like most fields) in the immediately intuitive on the scale of human interaction, the axiomatic underpinnings of modern number theory and set theory are certainly not. From a purely mathematical point of view there is no such thing as validity in terms of axioms; they're of interest insofar as their consequences are interesting.

The interplay with physical sciences is in investigating the potential applicability of the ensuing models to observed data.
(and this is, naturally, where every religious model of reality utterly collapses)

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