Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
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11-11-2011, 03:07 AM
Bug Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
If you listen you may not be convinced, but if you dismiss me then what you believe has no merit because it has never been questioned.

I hereby challenge, those who manifested and agree with "The thinking atheist" and his(or their) ideas presented on "http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-thinking-atheist/". If you are a thinker then im sure this kind of stuff is as exciting to you as it is to me. You say you are a thinker, but i say you are just self proclaimed. Either i am right, or i am wrong. But if i am wrong, i will be humbled because i would have be enlightened and i will apologize for my intrusion. I hope that this will not become a series of frustrating comments, but rather i hope by the time (if) we conclude i would have learned something also. In the end of my post i will post the answers to the meaning of life, free will vs fate, and other fundamental questions. This is a long post, that is because this topic is not so simple that the answer can be concluded so easily; and does deserve to be paid much thought.

note: when i address the Thinking Atheist, i am addressing the entire group that support these ideas presented in the link above. I have no personal grudge, i just think that the ideas are false. I dont believe in these statements and neither should anyone else without better reason.

Before you come to any conclusions and reply, please read the whole argument and if you have some contest about only a small part or comment of mine, you may choose to email me at [ g4orce1092@yahoo.com ]. Keep in mind that if i elaborate to full detail this would be come very boring and long. So some ideas are just implied. Such that if i support one idea, it does NOT mean i don't also support the other. The world is full of colors, not just black and white or creationists and atheists.

I respect that you've built up such a foundation and such support, it shows great diligence and passion. This is the problem. Hate and irate stretches a long way and leaves a great scar on the world wherever it spreads. The life of a happy person is significantly more prolonged than those who are not. This is not the quality of a thinker. At least creationists provide charity to the world, whether God exists or not. The work and good will of many reasonable Christians have done is undeniable. Yet you have only highlighted the faults of their group and at the same time you mention few faults of Atheism. Millions of people are fed and assisted by charity from those who believe in God. I don't contest that the information is wrong, because what you present are the ideas of other thinker's in the academic field. What you have done with that research is you put it inside of a cannon, uploaded it on youtube, and aimed it towards the creationists. With so many people who listen to you, it is irresponsible not to get the right answer. In fact, when people depend on you I believe that it is that person's duty to know that he isn't leading them the wrong direction.

In one of your videos "You can't trust science", you make the impression that science and religion are contradictory and compare the achievements as if they were in a race. But to make such a false analogy is like comparing a boat to a car as they race in the water. They don't operate in the same playing field nor do they contribute in the same way. Some of the contributions of Science include territories of literature in an academic setting whereas Religion runs on a turf is significantly less prevalent in the academic field. They do not compete in that way. The advance of science does not dim religion, and the product of religion does not suppress science. So to compare them by "contributions" is quite unfair. I do understand that the original argument is a defense against some comment made by a creationist. But if one saids to me the moon is made of cheese, i dont reply by saying it is made of gold. I don't deny that the creationist's statement is illogical, but that does make your ideas any more credible.

Also the video is bias. You play silly music when discussing the bible but then switch to classical fine arts when we talk about science. Like a door-to-door salesmen you use elaborate methods to support your weak product or do not believe it could stand by itself. You failed to mention any faults in what you support, and you failed to mention any benefits of what you are attacking. This is the definition of bias. Argument that are bias has no merit. There are many other claims similar to this one. Either you are the "thinking" atheist and ignore all fair argument on purpose because you have some vendetta or you are not the "thinking" atheist you believe you are.

You may get the impression that im a creationist because i am giving so much support to them, but im not. For the purpose of this debate, I don't believe that it matters where any of us stand so long as good reason and good will are provided. But if one day I open my door and Jesus was hovering at my step, i cannot say that he doesn't exist simply because it is my belief. If you can convince me that God exists, i will listen. We should tread slowly and carefully, this answer is very important. I don't believe anyone can say God exists, nor do i believe YOU can proclaim that he does not. If you want such a simple answer than you have mistaken this fabulous world for a childish one where things are just one or the other. This might be a little different, and some have said asked me a question like: "If you are an atheist, it is by definition that atheists do not believe in God.". But this topic is about the truth, and not how well you can master atheism.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

My conclusion is that your arguments are not as concrete as it is presented to be and it upset me to watch your videos because those who come in search of a friend in this shared journey are misled. I was once one of these pilgrims, and i was once very lost. But we must give voice because the difference between a hero and a coward is one step sideways. If your video "welcome to this world" you propose your viewers to resist the blind direction that creationists often give. But this is the same direction that you have presented. You do not promote free thinking, you do not promote open-mindedness. You are as freethinking to atheism, as the Quran is to the Bible. The Bible is open to interpretations, are you? Smile

Extra part
You are right, why would God put the Forbidden Fruit smack dab in the middle of the Garden. Thats just stupid. lol It is not only you(this community) but a majority of the world that believe the story of Adam and Eve was a tale about God's hate, punishment, and evil snakes, and none of it really makes any sense. Much like the rest of the Bible. When i was just a baby i ran naked throughout the house. If i had a chance and my mother wasn't looking, i would climb the sofa to see the great view on top of the 30th floor of my apartment. The best view was at the window, I was about four years old. It wasn't until i grew up that i knew if i ran around the house naked I should be embarrassed, so ill put on pants. And it wasn't until i was older that i knew if i wasn't careful i could fall off the 30th floor, so i became afraid of heights. When i read the story of Adam and Eve, i saw that alot of those events were really just things that happened in my life. Why is it that the fruit is a forbidden fruit of knowledge? Why not call it the forbidden fruit of God's can of whoop ass. Well thats because there is more to it than the word "forbidden". It represents the transference between innocence and maturity. Unlike today men have always known this phase, it is similar to a rite of passage indicating a transformation between dependency and independence. When we get older we start to become responsible for things. I got a job when i was 8, I began to contribute on my dad's farm. I was still a child but i began to understand that there was more to the world than the accommodating and seemingly infinite resources that could be represented by the garden of eden. For eve, we are men. We don't give birth. We work so that we can provide for the women, who does give birth. Much like how Eve is assigned the task when she matures, if the forbidden fruit represented maturity. And when they matured, both realized that they were naked and covered themselves like how a child will reach that point when they know to also cover up. It does not make sense to me that God could be omnipotent and forget to take the dangerous dark thing out of the room full of children who don't know enough to realize if they are naked.


I will post more topics later if I see interest. But i believe this is long enough. Most of the thing are very generalized. Even i don't like to go too far into details, because it just gets complex and impractical.

-The Meaning of Life is not rhetorical.
-Heaven Does Exist(If God Exists) but its not where you think it is.
-Science Supports Religion, and Religion Supports Science.
-Almost Any Answer to Any Worthy Question. (Free to email me)

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11-11-2011, 08:27 AM
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
Nah, man. For an atheist group, we got plenty of prophets in here. Spin em. Big Grin

Creationism is blasphemous idolatry. So sayeth the Bible, so sayeth the science of emergence.

Charity without love is the ascension of the self and the creation of the underclass. There is no need for charity with love.

Idolatry began with Adam and Eve. Idolatry ends with love and science. Religion is the worship of death. As an atheist, I choose life.

That about covers your rant with standard point text - any questions? Still here? Big Grin

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11-11-2011, 11:08 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2011 11:14 AM by PeterK.)
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
Thats pretty concrete yup lol. You seem to carry yourself very well. Its quite beautiful what you have summarized really lol. But it takes someone who is very thoughtful and open minded and have already understand these concepts to know what you mean. Otherwise the full statement is never conveyed. For the 70-75% of uneducated people in the US, many of them will not understand.

I don't agree that idolatry is a bad thing. Although I myself don't need it, some people do. That is because some people are crazy enough that they only stay good people by the threat of God and without such threats will become a greater problem to the world than creationists. Because we all know how crazy they can be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YfFCKy5BDA
love and science is surely the ideal goal, but not the realistic. It may apply to a few, but never to the whole. If you say that Christianity does not provide a heaven, people will leave. If you say that Christianity does not provide a hell, people will kill. They aren't driven by the truth. They are driven by sex, reward, and punishment.
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11-11-2011, 11:57 AM
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
The purpose of this thread escapes.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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11-11-2011, 12:38 PM
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
The only sex I could find anywhere in there was masturbatory blather.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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11-11-2011, 12:48 PM
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
(11-11-2011 11:57 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  The purpose of this thread escapes.

Right there with ya Peterkin. Although I was disagreeing, I was sort of getting the first half of the OP but after that (about the time I was expecting there to be a point to it all) I was lost.

OP, we're not afraid to read- if you want a discussion, please don't underestimate your audience and instead spend the time to clearly and thoroughly address each point you want to make. It looks like I would enjoy reading your post and maybe discussing some of these topics. I think you communicate well, but there are just too many different topics that you're trying to cover here.

Perhaps it's better to start an individual thread for each point you want to discuss. I was ready to make counter points to some of the first points you were making, but you lost me. You're trying to cover too many bases at once.

Also, you've referenced 2.5 hours worth of videos in the playlist and claimed the entirety to be false. If you want to talk about each point, then please do so individually. I'm not going to watch the whole 2.5 hours, even if I've probably already seen most of it. Point me to a specific video.
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11-11-2011, 01:31 PM
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
From what you have wrote I think you kind of think that the videos are done in a distastefull way.......I suppose you could see them as mocking, however from a free thinkers logical mind the bible and its story are falacious......so I can see why they are made the way they are.

Maybe you think these videos represent the views of this whole community......when in reality the making of these videos only represent the specific views of the producer of said videos.

I have seen a couple of them and to be honest I think they are in good humour.....I can only imagine that people who base there whole faith and outlook on life would find them offensive as it challenges there beliefs system.

I dont get what this thread is about if I am honest........I do not see anything but broad sweeping generalisations. I also felt misled as your thread title references sex and there is no mention of it in any of your posts Huh

You also state this.......

Quote:My conclusion is that your arguments are not as concrete as it is presented to be and it upset me to watch your videos because those who come in search of a friend in this shared journey are misled.

If you would like to break down your arguement on why they are wrong........also you could reverse it and say that the bible is misleading.....seeing as they too have no facts to back up there claims, the only thing they rely on is your faith.

After that sentence you say this.........

Quote: I was once one of these pilgrims, and i was once very lost.

Ok.......so you were once lost........this sentence seems to indicate to me that you are now "found".....seeing as you are no longer lost anymore. May I be bold as to be asking where you are then........and what brought you there???

I shant be E-mailing you as I find that to be very strange......why would you start a conversation on a forum then invite people to have one to ones with you.

Now I may be jumping to conclusions.......and be very presumptious but I think you ARE religious. I think that you are here to try and argue that god does exist and to try to shake peoples faith (or instill it once more)......which if I am honest I think you are wasting your time.

I could be wrong but that is my gut feeling.......and it very rarely lets me down.

If I have you all wrong I apologise now......although I am quite interested to hear why you are not lost anymore.....that to me is a very key question and if you disregard all of what I have said I at least would appreciate and answer to that.

Thanks.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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11-11-2011, 02:03 PM
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
(11-11-2011 01:31 PM)bemore Wrote:  Now I may be jumping to conclusions.......and be very presumptious but I think you ARE religious. I think that you are here to try and argue that god does exist and to try to shake peoples faith (or instill it once more)......which if I am honest I think you are wasting your time.

If you read the 'extra part' of his extra long post (not that I did, but I skimmed) he says he's not, as far as I can see... bit of reference to the garden of Eden story being stupid and all. I think he's upset that people aren't more respectful towards religion, is all. Boohoo.

Most atheists are radical only as far as they are pushed. If religious nuts would stop pushing their views on other people we'd be perfectly happy. I like guys who play rough - nothing wrong with a bit of disrespect and ridicule. It's what those ideas deserve.

Which is not to say that being an atheist suddenly converts you into the most logical and fantastic human being either...
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11-11-2011, 02:51 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2011 02:56 PM by angry_liberal.)
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
(11-11-2011 03:07 AM)PeterK Wrote:  You say you are a thinker, but i say you are just self proclaimed.
Hmm. This is the internet we can choose our handles, and they may well be misleading and disingenuous. However I have found the "Thinking Atheist" to be one of the most thoughtful and thought provoking members of the atheist community.

(11-11-2011 03:07 AM)PeterK Wrote:  I hope that this will not become a series of frustrating comments,..........
Quite a lot of caveating. Where's the beef bro?

(11-11-2011 03:07 AM)PeterK Wrote:  when i address the Thinking Atheist, i am addressing the entire group that support these ideas presented in the link above. .............Such that if i support one idea, it does NOT mean i don't also support the other. The world is full of colors, not just black and white or creationists and atheists.
You just contradicted yourself there I think. The Thinking Atheist allows anyone who behaves himself to discuss on this forum whether they agree with his videos or not.

(11-11-2011 03:07 AM)PeterK Wrote:  At least creationists provide charity to the world, whether God exists or not.
Sorry I cannot buy that one. If creationists were good people they would not waste everyone's time lying about science. That lying about science holds back medical progress and is responsible for killing people.

(11-11-2011 03:07 AM)PeterK Wrote:  The work and good will of many reasonable Christians have done is undeniable.
What is it about a Christian doctor that is better than an atheist doctor?

(11-11-2011 03:07 AM)PeterK Wrote:  In one of your videos "You can't trust science", you make the impression that science and religion are contradictory and compare the achievements as if they were in a race.
Depends what you mean by religion. If religion stopped trying to park its tanks on science's lawn, then yeah I would I give you that. But if you have come to this forum to say that Creationists are not non-stop liars, then I declare Verbal War on you - I emphasise a Verbal war - I don't want to kill anyone.

(11-11-2011 03:07 AM)PeterK Wrote:  You may get the impression that im a creationist
Just be honest will you.


(11-11-2011 01:31 PM)bemore Wrote:  I dont get what this thread is about if I am honest........I do not see anything but broad sweeping generalisations. I also felt misled as your thread title references sex and there is no mention of it in any of your posts Huh

Yeah another one who has studied spamming techniques.
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11-11-2011, 03:01 PM
 
RE: Sex, for reasonable people. Challenge for the Thinking Atheist Community
Sex? Sex? --- somebody said sex?

My hearing is not what it used to be....

Sex?

Quite a challenge at my age!!!

Sad
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