Shooting at Munich shopping mall
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25-07-2016, 10:27 AM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
(25-07-2016 07:45 AM)Dom Wrote:  Do the gun deaths have suicides mixed in?

No. If you add in suicides the number is around 14,000 killed by firearms.

I agree that it's inapt to do so in this context.
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25-07-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
(25-07-2016 09:13 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 08:03 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, suicides will happen, guns or no guns. There are a lot of different ways to commit suicide. I don't think they belong in gun statistics. Or at least they should be identified.

Actualy there might be a small cause effect between availability of firearms and suicide. Suicide methods are highly ritualised and can vary from culture to culture and especially from men to women. Men prefer execution style suicide with gun death and hanging being the two favorites, while women prefer slower painless suicide methods like overdosing on somnifers or slitting their veins in a warm bath. Of course suicide by firearms are very efficient with 85% chances of success especially when compared to overdosing on sleeping pills.

The problem stems from the fact that a suicidal mindset isn't permanent. Sucidal urges come and go during a deeply depressive state. A strong deathwish isn't a constent state. You can be swarmed by the idea of killing yourself to end the pain for a few minutes or hours before reverting back to a state of helpless anguish without self destructive thought. A person armed with a gun can kill himself in roughly five minutes, the time for him to pick up is weapon, load it and discharge it. A person who wants to hang himself will need to find a sturdy rope (which most people don't have), find a supporting beem or pipe, make small research on internet to make a proper knot, set himself up and then make the fatal mouvement. All of this can take up to a few hours. By the time you are ready to hang yourself you might have lost temporarly your desire to die and delay your suicide. With a bit of luck someone will realise it and save you and pull the alarm to help you.

In other words, firearms are really good at killing quickly and efficiently so if you were to act on an impulse, you would succeed more often. Availability of firearms does create a problem for suicide prevention by making suicide easier and much accessible. Considering that suicide is about three times more frequent than murder that puts the problem in perspective...

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-fe...dden-toll/

https://www.thetrace.org/2015/11/gun-sui...tatistics/


When you toss yourself off a tall building - it's about the same outcome as putting a .357 in your mouth and pulling the trigger. The commitment to action is identical - the outcome, nearly so.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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25-07-2016, 11:10 AM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
(25-07-2016 10:27 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 07:45 AM)Dom Wrote:  Do the gun deaths have suicides mixed in?

No. If you add in suicides the number is around 14,000 killed by firearms.

I agree that it's inapt to do so in this context.

14,000 is low compared to the numbers I usually see. Based on what I've read in the past gun related suicides in the US run 20,000 plus a year and homicides at 11,000 plus for a total of something north of 30,000 a year.

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25-07-2016, 01:11 PM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
(25-07-2016 11:10 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 10:27 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  No. If you add in suicides the number is around 14,000 killed by firearms.

I agree that it's inapt to do so in this context.

14,000 is low compared to the numbers I usually see. Based on what I've read in the past gun related suicides in the US run 20,000 plus a year and homicides at 11,000 plus for a total of something north of 30,000 a year.

Thanks for the correction, top-of-the-head requires coffee to have kicked in. Blush
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25-07-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
Why is this thread about a shooting in Munich now about gun control in the US, like about 5 dozen other threads?

Not everything is about gun control in the US, I am kinda sick and bored with every thread turning into that.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-07-2016, 01:25 PM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
(25-07-2016 01:20 PM)Dom Wrote:  Why is this thread about a shooting in Munich now about gun control in the US, like about 5 dozen other threads?

Not everything is about gun control in the US, I am kinda sick and bored with every thread turning into that.

Happens every time.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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25-07-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
(25-07-2016 01:20 PM)Dom Wrote:  Why is this thread about a shooting in Munich now about gun control in the US, like about 5 dozen other threads?

Not everything is about gun control in the US, I am kinda sick and bored with every thread turning into that.

You are correct and for what its worth, I apologies for fuelling the fire with my last comment.

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25-07-2016, 01:33 PM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
Point taken, Dom, sorry for my two cents'.
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25-07-2016, 06:50 PM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
(22-07-2016 02:56 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I don't think you understand my point. I'm not talking about forcing out Muslim terrorists, I'm talking about forcing out ALL Muslims. I just don't think Americans will live like European countries. Europeans have to play by the rules because they are mostly unarmed. They are at the mercy of their politicians and the terrorists. Americans don't have that problem. We are armed to the teeth. And we'll force them all out if we have to.

Well, to return to the core of the debate, now that the killer has been identify as an admirer of Anders Breivik, motivated by killing immigrants and a anti-social bullying victim turned executioner; does that change your perception of the issue of terrorism, mass shootings and criminality or does your main solution is still mass deportation (and potentially genocide)? Do you happen to have a strategy to deal with Muslim converts, a significant portion of ISIS fighting force, or with Muslim americans whose ancestor might have immigrated a century ago from a country that no longuer exist?

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28-07-2016, 07:43 AM
RE: Shooting at Munich shopping mall
(25-07-2016 05:09 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Guns are simply a tool. Like any other tool, they can be misused.
I know that a lot of the pro-gun lobby use this oversimplified rationale, but when you think about it, it's meaningless. I can easily kill someone with a chain saw or a sledge hammer or a screwdriver, but the point is that they're not specifically designed and manufactured for the purpose of killing peopleā€”as are guns. And any "tool" that's purpose-specific is obviously better at its designated task.

Quote:A gun is an inanimate object. It does not influence people into action. What influences people to action - is other people.
True in most cases, but not all. "Other people" have very little influence on the internalisations (or the processes involving the formation of the super ego) of the true psychopath. The other point is that the appearance and heft, history, and reflected power of firearms does invoke very strong militant emotions in a lot of males.

One only has to look at the number of disproportionately excessive police shootings involving minority ethnic groups such as Hispanics or African-Americans. Far too many cops think they're a big man, behind the barrel of a 40 S&W.

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