Shooting in Australia
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04-10-2015, 06:32 AM
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 06:26 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 06:17 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  That's why we have Posse Comitatus.

In theory that keeps them from using military hardware on us....

In this imaginary scenario where the 2nd needs to be actively applied, I doubt the Powers That Be would much care.

I take it you were never in the service.

I'm 3rd generation in the service - my nephew is 4th generation. I talked to him recently - and the attitude of the servicemembers hasn't changed much. If they were ordered to "round up Americans" - they'd refuse the order.

That was pretty much the way I remember the attitude, and my dad remembers it...... (don't know about grandpa -- the subject never came up)...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-10-2015, 06:44 AM
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 06:32 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'm 3rd generation in the service - my nephew is 4th generation. I talked to him recently - and the attitude of the servicemembers hasn't changed much. If they were ordered to "round up Americans" - they'd refuse the order.

Thus obviating the need for Americans to have their guns...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-10-2015, 06:53 AM
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 06:44 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 06:32 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'm 3rd generation in the service - my nephew is 4th generation. I talked to him recently - and the attitude of the servicemembers hasn't changed much. If they were ordered to "round up Americans" - they'd refuse the order.

Thus obviating the need for Americans to have their guns...

Not really.

The reason so many would refuse the order - is because they'd be going up against ARMED Americans... not docile sheep....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-10-2015, 07:03 AM
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 06:53 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 06:44 AM)morondog Wrote:  Thus obviating the need for Americans to have their guns...

Not really.

The reason so many would refuse the order - is because they'd be going up against ARMED Americans... not docile sheep....

Yes, it would be suicidal to follow such an order. There's only a little over 2 million troops counting active and reserve. And that's counting Navy, Air Force and non combat personnel that would be useless with a weapon as a ground troop.

The NRA alone has 5 million members. It's estimated 100 million people own guns in America.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-10-2015, 07:13 AM
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 06:13 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 05:47 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And while we're at it -- let's get rid of that pesky 1st Ammendment --- how's a government supposed to rule with so much dissent going on?

And those 4th and 5th amendments -- those gotta go too.... Cops everywhere will love being able to "find" the evidence they need to close cases -- even if they have to manufacture it.....

By the time we get up to the 13th amendment - -we'll have total control and everything will be all sunshine, unicorns and rainbows, right????

......

The reason we have the 2nd is to keep the government from doing exactly this.....

What government is going to chance taking on the most heavily armed population on the planet?

You can say "That'll never happen" --- but history says otherwise.

The Colonists didn't rise up against King George because the Crown levied a tax on tea ---- they rose up because the King sent his men to take their guns.

You can have all the AR-15s in the world, and this may because I'm an ignorant foreigner, but I can't see that stopping a Hellfire being shoved up your ass...

To answer that thought, without necessarily getting back into the meat of the debate itself...

The Hellfires themselves, no. But their use is heavily dependent on relatively lightly armed recon elements, and the equipment and infrastructure they depend on vulnerable to light infantry or guerrilla style attacks.

In the initial stages of the fight in Afghanistan, before all the heavy equipment arrived, and without much in the way of transportation infrastructure, the air strikes were spearheaded by operators on horseback carrying little more than a rifle and a laser target designator. The key to avoiding having a barrage of Hellfires shoved up your ass boiled down to minor small arms skirmishes between AK wielding jihadists and what were essentially American "cowboys" on horseback.

And in a theoretical shit hit the fan scenario, a tactically proficient militia or rebel military force wouldn't be sitting around waiting for air strikes. They'd be using their guerrilla advantage to mount surprise small arms attacks on the facilities housing such hardware with the intent of claiming it for themselves, or fucking with the supply lines all this high tech stuff is dependent on. That's what I'd do, anyway. And I guarantee that me and 4 or 5 of my 'murican buddies could shut down an airfield with a few well placed marksmen.

'Murican Canadian
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04-10-2015, 07:57 AM
RE: Shooting in Australia
This Thread moved a lot faster then i thought
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04-10-2015, 09:58 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2015 10:09 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 06:17 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 06:13 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  You can have all the AR-15s in the world, and this may because I'm an ignorant foreigner, but I can't see that stopping a Hellfire being shoved up your ass...

That's why we have Posse Comitatus.

In theory that keeps them from using military hardware on us....

I'm sure the government would abide strictly by the law in the case of armed insurrection. No doubt they leave all rights intact, too, just like they did in the Civil War.
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04-10-2015, 10:04 AM
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 07:13 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 06:13 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  You can have all the AR-15s in the world, and this may because I'm an ignorant foreigner, but I can't see that stopping a Hellfire being shoved up your ass...

To answer that thought, without necessarily getting back into the meat of the debate itself...

The Hellfires themselves, no. But their use is heavily dependent on relatively lightly armed recon elements, and the equipment and infrastructure they depend on vulnerable to light infantry or guerrilla style attacks.

Unless that recon is drone-based.

(04-10-2015 07:13 AM)yakherder Wrote:  And in a theoretical shit hit the fan scenario, a tactically proficient militia or rebel military force wouldn't be sitting around waiting for air strikes.

I've emphasized the sticking point. While your military training is obvious, down here in gun country where I live, most of these guys don't know enfilade from infield. The extent of their training is watching Saving Private Ryan.
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04-10-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 10:04 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 07:13 AM)yakherder Wrote:  To answer that thought, without necessarily getting back into the meat of the debate itself...

The Hellfires themselves, no. But their use is heavily dependent on relatively lightly armed recon elements, and the equipment and infrastructure they depend on vulnerable to light infantry or guerrilla style attacks.

Unless that recon is drone-based.

(04-10-2015 07:13 AM)yakherder Wrote:  And in a theoretical shit hit the fan scenario, a tactically proficient militia or rebel military force wouldn't be sitting around waiting for air strikes.

I've emphasized the sticking point. While your military training is obvious, down here in gun country where I live, most of these guys don't know enfilade from infield. The extent of their training is watching Saving Private Ryan.

I was gonna comment on the drones but I decided to play it safe and keep it off a public forum to keep myself out of shit. I'll just say I don't disagree that drones offer an advantage, but they are far from invulnerable if you understand their weaknesses and are adequately prepared to exploit them.

And you might be surprised at some of the experience floating around in the militias. I personally know 3 people from my unit alone who have gone on to join militia groups after leaving the military. Yeah most are inexperienced, video game educated potatoes. But there are some exceptional soldiers in their ranks, too, and I'd be willing to guess they're sharing their knowledge.

'Murican Canadian
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04-10-2015, 12:34 PM
RE: Shooting in Australia
(04-10-2015 05:53 AM)morondog Wrote:  Rolleyes

There are other ways to run society than the way *you guys* run it. Refusing to even consider options such as changing the constitution limits you. You already have a legal process in place to implement such changes, as long as it is followed and everything is above board, what's the problem?

I'm all for changing the constitution to make this country a better country but the process to make any amendments is so difficult, that's why it rarely happens. Amendment can take place by a vote of two-thirds of both the House of Representatives and the Senate followed by a ratification of three-fourths of the various state legislatures. You would have to get a lot of people to agree to get it to work.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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