Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
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18-01-2011, 08:24 AM
 
Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
I have a friend on Facebook who often spouts out random crap of advice from the Bible and I usually reply with a bit of dry reason, but on occassion his pastor will respond to me with some... interesting arguments. Here is an example:

Friend: I am not a debater I am a believer,If you don't believe I can't help you neither can't God help if u don't believe .. If u are truly curious to know why don't u come by this Sunday to my church. Trust me the truth shall send you free.

Me: Help me with what? Set me free from what?

Pastor: I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is. You too make your choice.

Me: How about living your life believing there is a god, then dying and finding out its the wrong god? Pascal's Wager does not work.

Pastor: There is only one God and many gods!

Me: Bullshit answer to a bullshit premise. Since the entire wager is based on not actually knowing whether any god (childish adherence to capitalisation withstanding) actually exists, there is no discernible difference in terms of likelihood that any exist over each other.

Pastor: May God have mercy on you Robert. You cannot kiss your elbow. Show me your mind! Repent or perish. The Word is simple, BELIEVE.

Me: Oh good, you have decided to give up even trying to make a rational response. Kiss my elbow? Why would I want to do that? Or should I just blame "God" for not designing me so I could kiss it? Although personally, I'd want to have a word with him first about making my body susceptible to cancer. That was rather unnecessary of him.

Pastor: Robert, you are the wise one, the rest of the world is foolish. Either you are a timewaster or you seriously looking for help or even better you could be a timewaster looking for help. Now your help will come only from above. As long as you... are looking to man to convince you, you are looking at the wrong source. A long time ago, a man was born who has changed for the better a lot in people's lives. He can help yours be changed too but it depends on you. His entrance into the world was so remarkable that God made the world mark time with reference to Him. Today's date is the 18th of January, 2011 years after the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ. Mark this in your calendar. Now go and find out as much as you like about Jesus Christ. You do not have to agree with what people will tell you, the truth buzzer in your heart will buzz when you hear the truth (I hope it just buzzed now). As you find out about Jesus Christ, you will find more about the One true God and yourself. The Bible is a recommended starting point (it will also be the end). If you skip all the signs and wonders and miracles you will find that the Bible is historical, in fact no need to skip just ignore them for a start and concentrate on the History. Another highly recommded smaller read is "More than a carpenter" by Josh McDowell. I can give you a copy if you wish. Robert *Surname* is not your body, Robert *Surname* is a spirit that lives in your body. With God all things are possible, you can kiss your elbow. Always remember, I love you.

Me: Timewaster? Because I openly don't hold the same beliefs as you? And I'd rather not look for help from beings that don't even bother to show themselves in any reliable way.

Have the teachings of Jesus bettered people's lives? Sure, of course.... His words bring hope to many and help guide people through their lives. Does it mean that what he said about heaven and hell and "God" is true? No. It may be true, but not just because some guy said it is. And just to clarify, the existence of Jesus is not a fact. It may have been you or somebody else that I talked to before about this, but historical records outside of the Bible are quite unreliable on this point. In fact, "historical" records WITHIN the Bible can't agree on this guy.

For example, and I'm only bringing this up because you brought up the ridiculous point of God making "the world mark time with reference to Him", when was Jesus born? 2011 years ago? During the reign of Herod the King? (Matthew 2:1)(Luke 1:5) Since Herod died in 4BC, it had to have been before that, meaning he was born at least 2015 years ago. Or was it when Caesar Augustus decreed that the world should be taxed, during the time when Cyrenius was Governer of Syria? (Luke 2:1) But he wasn't Governer until 6CE, meaning Jesus was born 2007 years ago at most! So which is it? The only thing that we can determine from these accounts in the Bible, if we take it to be true, is that Jesus was definitely NOT born 2011 years ago. So, how historical is the Bible if it gives two contradicting accounts of when this guy was born?

(Did the little buzzer go off in your heart?)

I do not love you as I do not know you, but this does not mean that I don't like you. I hold no grudge against you for standing up for what you believe, I commend it. I just ask that you check your facts. If you wish to continue believing on faith alone, thats fine with me. But please stop imagining that just because you believe it that it must be true.

And finally, I really do not want to kiss my elbow.

Pastor: THANK YOU. IT DEPENDS ON YOU ROBERT!

Me: What depends on me? My salvation from a fate that has not been shown to be true? I'm shaking in my little space boots.
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18-01-2011, 08:48 AM
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
Fucking Pastors, how do they work?

I'd be interested in hearing more about this "truth buzzer." Where is it located in my heart, exactly? By what mechanisms does it operate?

That was quite a read. I've ended up on a pastor's email list, and am still trying to find a good way to respond to some of the bullshit I see on a regular basis. None of it is directed to me, I only get the mass mailings, but there's still plenty of bullshit.

Our brains deceive us on a regular basis, so we have to find ways to fight back.
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18-01-2011, 09:03 AM
 
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
good debate with the holy roller.... how presumptuous of him to think " Robert, you are the wise one, the rest of the world is foolish."... he speaks for the "rest of the world?"... there's no chance in his narrow mind that there actually might be others that think like you do? or that there might in fact actually be others that (dare say it) don't think like him???
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18-01-2011, 09:55 AM
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
That was an amusing read, but sadly uninteresting.
If you are subscribed to a few atheists/creationists on youtube you see this back and forth each day.
Sadly religious people refuse to be budged from their faith , which wouldn't be a problem if they didn't spout their bronze-age crap as absolute truth everyone should follow.
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18-01-2011, 12:10 PM
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
damn, at least my pastor has logical debates.

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“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
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18-01-2011, 08:00 PM
 
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
Quote:Robert, you are the wise one, the rest of the world is foolish. Either you are a timewaster or you seriously looking for help or even better you could be a timewaster looking for help.

Wow nice attempt to give to try an lure you in with compliments. Trying to make you feel like you are special and other people are not. Quote comes to mind: fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Quote:THANK YOU. IT DEPENDS ON YOU ROBERT!

To me that just looks like didn't bother to read what you just said. Epic fail!
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18-01-2011, 08:21 PM
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
(18-01-2011 08:00 PM)Free_Thinker Wrote:  
Quote:Robert, you are the wise one, the rest of the world is foolish. Either you are a timewaster or you seriously looking for help or even better you could be a timewaster looking for help.

Wow nice attempt to give to try an lure you in with compliments. Trying to make you feel like you are special and other people are not. Quote comes to mind: fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Quote:THANK YOU. IT DEPENDS ON YOU ROBERT!

To me that just looks like didn't bother to read what you just said. Epic fail!


I thought the saying was: "Fool me once, shame on... shame on me. Uh, fool me can't get fooled again."

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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18-01-2011, 08:31 PM
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
Some of it was tl;dr, but most of what the pastor was saying didn't even make sense.
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My reason for being is to serve as a cat cushion. That is good enough for me. Wink
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18-01-2011, 08:36 PM
 
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
(18-01-2011 08:21 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I thought the saying was: "Fool me once, shame on... shame on me. Uh, fool me can't get fooled again."

I'm sure W and the pastor share alot in common. Tongue
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18-01-2011, 09:15 PM
RE: Short (but sweet) Facebook debate
Truth buzzer sounds like a flirtula to me Tongue
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