Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
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02-04-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
(02-04-2016 05:51 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 03:53 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I was raised in a very rustic, secluded mountainous area. No hot water, an outhouse for a bathroom, no TV or radio. Both my parents were non believers and religion simply wasn't discussed. It wasn't until I was about 9 years old that a god concept was introduced to me through a christmas song. Prior to that I had no idea of a god, there was nothing. God was non existent. I'd even go so far as to say I wasn't even in the default position because there was no position to be in when something doesn't exist.

A god is a similar situation to the unborn. They simply don't exist. The unborn weren't conceived so they aren't there. There is no "they" in the unborn. There is nothing. One has to create an imaginary person out of whole cloth to make a never born person real but they're only real in ones mind. This is similar to a god. It's a being who exists in the mind but only after introductions are made.

There's a variety of studies, that suggest that even children raised in non-religious homes, are prone to teleological beliefs, beliefs in a created order, such as believing pointy rocks exist for porcupines to scratch their back on.

Perhaps your an outlier to these observation, but the near universality of religious beliefs, indicates there something more at play here than whats taught, just as when it comes to morality.

Yet I had no intrinsic concept of any deity whatsoever, no belief and no need to believe in any god. An introduction needed to be made for me to know a god concept existed.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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02-04-2016, 08:26 PM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
(01-04-2016 02:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  We have good evidence that dolphins are self-aware and capable of creative problem solving. Both require introspection.




Not only this but they have figure out how to get high by mouthing a toxic puffer (detrodotoxin on skin), they pass it around amongst each other and then do goofy things like stare at their reflection on the water’s surface.

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/...-video.htm

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/vi...BS6symC3z3

http://www.news.com.au/technology/scienc...6791707165

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-04-2016, 09:51 PM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
Facepalm

(02-04-2016 05:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I think there's something contradictory about this position and your previous suggestions.

It appears you're open to the possibility that other animals such as dolphins might be able to contemplate where the came from, without being taught?

Yeah, I am open to the possibility that other creatues can ponder their own existance.

A) so what?
B) this somehow means that other creatures care about their origins because they can perhaps think about it.
C) how is this a contradiction?

(02-04-2016 05:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The same can be said about a child, or an infant here as well, that they can contemplate where they came from without being taught?

Is this correct?

You seem to be assuming that you have to be taught to be curious. I really don't think that is true.


(02-04-2016 05:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If so, would you say that they can possibly contemplate the questions, but can't contemplate or formulate their own answers?

Not necessarily. If they have the faculties to ponder such questions, they may be able to come up with some answer, right or wrong. Considering you repeatedly demonstrate that you are capable of asking questions and can't contemplate the answers, why does it seem so crazy that another creature can/can't do it?

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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02-04-2016, 10:49 PM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
(02-04-2016 05:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 05:46 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  If they could, but they are unable to communicate that fact, how do you propose we find out? Facepalm

How did Atheists like Bucky and others find out that infants lack a belief in God, if they are unable to communicate that?


Wow, how fucking inane are you? If all infants came pre-packaged with belief in Yahweh (that is god with a capitol G), then how do you explain the world we live in? The rest of the world's more than 2/3'rds population who are not Christian or Jewish, the fractioning of the denominations, the very existence of organized religion? The existence of humans pre-Judaism? What need is there for spreading 'the good word' if everyone is born knowing it?


Any other stupid questions, or have you filled your quota for today?

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02-04-2016, 11:09 PM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
(02-04-2016 02:19 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 02:01 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Just waiting on your answers/explanations for your bullshit. Drinking Beverage


And I'm waiting on hearing your take on it. I already stated my view.
Damnit Tom you dumb fuck he knows you have stated your view cause he just got done restating it before asking for evidence. You don't have to ask someone their view to present your evidence, just present your evidence and stop being an evasive cunt.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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03-04-2016, 01:25 AM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
well infants can and can't be classified as atheists
since the definition of atheist is simply a person who doesn't hold the belief in god the definition does apply
whether a person actually understands the concept of god isn't included in the definition so this part is debatable

my take on this is that until an infant reaches and age where they can clearly grasp concepts and exercise critical thinking they should classified as "none"
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03-04-2016, 06:12 AM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
(02-04-2016 09:51 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Not necessarily. If they have the faculties to ponder such questions, they may be able to come up with some answer, right or wrong.

If they can possibly contemplate such questions, and possibly come up with answers right or wrong, without being taught, why couldn't one such untaught answer be that they were created, or part of some created order?

Clearly thats the answer nearly all of humanity whose been able to contemplate such a questions has formulated? So why imagine that dolphins who you suggest can possibly ask the question of where they came from, can't formulate some conception of God without being taught?

I find you position here seemingly contradictory, based on the fact that you believe it's possible for dolphins to both contemplate the question, and formulate an answer, even wrong ones, but exclude the possibly that one such answer would be a creator?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-04-2016, 06:21 AM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 06:27 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
(02-04-2016 11:09 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Damnit Tom you dumb fuck he knows you have stated your view cause he just got done restating it before asking for evidence. You don't have to ask someone their view to present your evidence, just present your evidence and stop being an evasive cunt.

Inductive reasoning.

But I have no hard evidence to offer.

I also don't have any hard evidence to offer a solipsist that minds outside of his own exist.

But I'm surprised people disagree with me here, so I'm interested in hearing people share their stance, whether they lack a belief one way or other, lean towards one position or the other, etc... I also think there's a contradiction between individuals who claim that infants are atheists, and that dolphins have possibly contemplated their origins. These are the only points I'm interested in. I'm not interested in any other argument others may want to draw me into.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-04-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
(02-04-2016 10:49 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 05:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  How did Atheists like Bucky and others find out that infants lack a belief in God, if they are unable to communicate that?


Wow, how fucking inane are you? If all infants came pre-packaged with belief in Yahweh (that is god with a capitol G), then how do you explain the world we live in? The rest of the world's more than 2/3'rds population who are not Christian or Jewish, the fractioning of the denominations, the very existence of organized religion? The existence of humans pre-Judaism? What need is there for spreading 'the good word' if everyone is born knowing it?


Any other stupid questions, or have you filled your quota for today?

I wasn't referring to Yahweh, or any specific God/s. So you can take your strawman elsewhere.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-04-2016, 06:44 AM
RE: Shortcomings of the "probability of life" argument
(03-04-2016 06:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 10:49 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Wow, how fucking inane are you? If all infants came pre-packaged with belief in Yahweh (that is god with a capitol G), then how do you explain the world we live in? The rest of the world's more than 2/3'rds population who are not Christian or Jewish, the fractioning of the denominations, the very existence of organized religion? The existence of humans pre-Judaism? What need is there for spreading 'the good word' if everyone is born knowing it?


Any other stupid questions, or have you filled your quota for today?

I wasn't referring to Yahweh, or any specific God/s. So you can take your strawman elsewhere.

So. Your quota had not been filled then. Facepalm

(You're about as "interested" in answers to questions as Wail of the Child is.)
Even when you get them, you'll reappear in a couple weeks with your same insulting generalizations.
We're on to your schtick.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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