Should CNN be proud of this?
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18-08-2015, 02:18 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 01:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  ...
This happened to my nephew. He died in transit because the local hospital did not provide the surgery he needed.

Sorry to hear about your nephew. I can understand why this matter is important to you.

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18-08-2015, 02:21 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 01:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  ...
This happened to my nephew. He died in transit because the local hospital did not provide the surgery he needed.

Hug
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18-08-2015, 02:44 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
Quote:After CNN's investigation was published, the hospital released a statement saying CNN's mortality calculations were "wrong," "exaggerated" and "completely erroneous" and that the program's risk-adjusted mortality rate was within the average range for pediatric heart surgery programs nationwide.

This pisses me off. I work for a high acuity unit - we have a lot more deaths than your average CVICU. We take cases that other surgeons won't touch, make amazing breakthroughs, and save the lives of people that were told it was hopeless.

This is a great example of why I can't fucking stand sensationalist media.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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18-08-2015, 02:56 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 02:17 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Only people who don't understand statistics refer to good or bad 'streaks'. You sound like a Las Vegas casino patron at the craps table.

When discussing these things in this forum, I am going to be better understood by using the term "streaks" than I would if I used the phrase "deviation from the mean".

Flip a quarter 10 times. If the result is 7 heads, well in that short run, you have deviated from the mean. In short runs, like 2011-2013 it is not unexpected to see some deviation from the mean.

I don't doubt CNN's number. I simply doubt their conclusion about what those numbers mean.

Regarding the quote from the doctor who said the hospital should stop what they are doing. Well in the 50's "experts" also said Dr Freireich should have stopped giving platelet transfusion to children with leukemia and that he should have not treated them with drug cocktails(we call it chemotherapy today). The treatment protocols Feireich developed have saved the lives of tens of thousands of leukemia patients. I don't put a lot of faith in quotes from experts when evaluating a story like this. The "expert" isn't going to be that much more knowledgeable than the doctors at the hospital in question and CNN could also be quote mining the expert.

Craps is a game with negative expectation. I hope you don't play craps because it is a suckers game.
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18-08-2015, 03:00 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 02:18 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 01:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  ...
This happened to my nephew. He died in transit because the local hospital did not provide the surgery he needed.

Sorry to hear about your nephew. I can understand why this matter is important to you.

(18-08-2015 02:21 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 01:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  ...
This happened to my nephew. He died in transit because the local hospital did not provide the surgery he needed.

Hug

Thanks guys.
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18-08-2015, 03:08 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 02:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 02:17 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Only people who don't understand statistics refer to good or bad 'streaks'. You sound like a Las Vegas casino patron at the craps table.

When discussing these things in this forum, I am going to be better understood by using the term "streaks" than I would if I used the phrase "deviation from the mean".

If you think that is how things apply to this forum or many in general, there is a huge social gap occurring with you. Maybe it's why you may realize you have a horrible record of respect with the huge negative reputation you carry.

Perhaps if you didn't communicate how you think you need to be to "better understood" you actually would be understood and not viewed constantly as an troll or illogical ranter.

But my point before is that you are doing what you proclaim CNN to being questionable in doing. Which is judging or questioning an outcome based on limited information to know what the factors in the situation are.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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18-08-2015, 03:09 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 02:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Regarding the quote from the doctor who said the hospital should stop what they are doing. Well in the 50's "experts" also said Dr Freireich should have stopped giving platelet transfusion to children with leukemia and that he should have not treated them with drug cocktails(we call it chemotherapy today). The treatment protocols Feireich developed have saved the lives of tens of thousands of leukemia patients. I don't put a lot of faith in quotes from experts when evaluating a story like this. The "expert" isn't going to be that much more knowledgeable than the doctors at the hospital in question and CNN could also be quote mining the expert.


What the fuck is your point here?

Read what I quoted again...

The head of the panel, Dr. Jeffrey Jacobs, a professor of cardiac surgery at Johns Hopkins, suggested they stop doing heart surgeries on babies younger than 6 months.

The experts (plural) were appointed by Florida's Department of Health, and consisted of fellow cardiologists. Who else would be better to judge the competency of a heart surgery program than a panel of independent heart surgeons? Facepalm

All you're doing is committing the Einstein fallacy. People called Einstein crazy, but it turns out he was a genius and his work was later vindicated; but that doesn't mean that every person with seemingly outlandish ideas is another Einstein level genius just waiting in the wings.

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18-08-2015, 03:28 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:09 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The experts (plural) were appointed by Florida's Department of Health, and consisted of fellow cardiologists. Who else would be better to judge the competency of a heart surgery program than a panel of independent heart surgeons? Facepalm

Presumably the people preforming the surgery are also heart surgeons. And presumably this group of experts felt that operating did more harm than good. The way CNN presents it is misleading. It makes the reader believe that experts in the field have come to a consensus that heart surgery on patients younger than six months does more harm than good. I doubt there is consensus on this issue. They presented one side and you got suckered into it.
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18-08-2015, 03:35 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Presumably the people preforming the surgery are also heart surgeons.

Would you mind like, fixing your spelling? It's perform.

The heart surgeons employed at that particular hospital cannot by definition form a panel of independent experts investigating practices at that same hospital.

While CNN might have sensationalised it, once the expert panel has made a recommendation, *that* is what gets acted on.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-08-2015, 03:41 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:35 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Presumably the people preforming the surgery are also heart surgeons.

Would you mind like, fixing your spelling? It's perform.

The heart surgeons employed at that particular hospital cannot by definition form a panel of independent experts investigating practices at that same hospital.

While CNN might have sensationalised it, once the expert panel has made a recommendation, *that* is what gets acted on.

Would you mind fixing your own spelling before being critical of mine? It's "sensationalized" not "sensationalised" as you wrote above.
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