Should CNN be proud of this?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18-08-2015, 03:50 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:35 AM)morondog Wrote:  Would you mind like, fixing your spelling? It's perform.

The heart surgeons employed at that particular hospital cannot by definition form a panel of independent experts investigating practices at that same hospital.

While CNN might have sensationalised it, once the expert panel has made a recommendation, *that* is what gets acted on.

Would you mind fixing your own spelling before being critical of mine? It's "sensationalized" not "sensationalised" as you wrote above.

UK spelling, dickhead Smile ETA: I forgive you for being an ignorant clown.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like morondog's post
18-08-2015, 03:54 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 02:44 AM)Nurse Wrote:  
Quote:After CNN's investigation was published, the hospital released a statement saying CNN's mortality calculations were "wrong," "exaggerated" and "completely erroneous" and that the program's risk-adjusted mortality rate was within the average range for pediatric heart surgery programs nationwide.

This pisses me off. I work for a high acuity unit - we have a lot more deaths than your average CVICU. We take cases that other surgeons won't touch, make amazing breakthroughs, and save the lives of people that were told it was hopeless.

This is a great example of why I can't fucking stand sensationalist media.

I would bet there are time periods....weeks, months, and maybe even years....when deaths seem to be higher than usual. In times when deaths are higher than normal could that be incompetence? Sure....but more likely it is simply just bad luck(or variance as we gamblers call it). During a down streak people are going to think you suck.

There are probably times when deaths are much lower than normal.....because of good luck(right side of variance). People are going to think you are gods.

You're never as good as they think you are and you're never as bad as they think you are. You're only as good as your mean. It is sad and appalling to think that health care is now no longer being provided because some crappy news organization sensationalized a normal deviation from the mean.

BTW.....Thank you for saving lives.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2015, 03:57 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:35 AM)morondog Wrote:  Would you mind like, fixing your spelling? It's perform.

The heart surgeons employed at that particular hospital cannot by definition form a panel of independent experts investigating practices at that same hospital.

While CNN might have sensationalised it, once the expert panel has made a recommendation, *that* is what gets acted on.

Would you mind fixing your own spelling before being critical of mine? It's "sensationalized" not "sensationalised" as you wrote above.

Morondog's spelling sensationalised as he did is perfectly acceptable; it is the correct spelling of the word, as opposed to the American spelling.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2015, 03:59 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:50 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Would you mind fixing your own spelling before being critical of mine? It's "sensationalized" not "sensationalised" as you wrote above.

UK spelling, dickhead Smile ETA: I forgive you for being an ignorant clown.

Be careful about forgiving people....apparently the forum team has deemed public forgiveness to be a SPAM(I got a warning in a PM from a mod. It was nebulous so I am only guessing here....but I think it was about me responding to insults with forgiveness).

I wouldn't want to see you banned.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2015, 04:01 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:57 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Would you mind fixing your own spelling before being critical of mine? It's "sensationalized" not "sensationalised" as you wrote above.

Morondog's spelling sensationalised as he did is perfectly acceptable; it is the correct spelling of the word, as opposed to the American spelling.

You guys across the pond butcher that word just like you butcher aluminium......It's aluminum.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2015, 04:06 AM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2015 05:42 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:09 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The experts (plural) were appointed by Florida's Department of Health, and consisted of fellow cardiologists. Who else would be better to judge the competency of a heart surgery program than a panel of independent heart surgeons? Facepalm
Presumably the people preforming the surgery are also heart surgeons.

But you cannot always rely on them to monitor themselves, hence the independent panel that was brought in by the Health Department.


(18-08-2015 03:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  And presumably this group of experts felt that operating did more harm than good.

Well, you know what they say about assuming things...

There is a reason why we have independent oversight, because those who regulate themselves have a vested interest in not finding anything wrong.


(18-08-2015 03:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The way CNN presents it is misleading.

Sensationalized? Sure. Misleading? No, and certainly not in comparison to your own grasping at straws and assumption making.


(18-08-2015 03:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  It makes the reader believe that experts in the field have come to a consensus that heart surgery on patients younger than six months does more harm than good.

Funny, because not only do they not say that, it's nothing close to the conclusion that I drew from the article. They stated that a panel had been convened by Florida's own Health Department, and to what the recommendation of that panel was, and how is was evidently not headed in a subsequent case involving the post-surgery death of an infant. To me it read like the hospital lacked the expertise to try the most dangerous cases, and in order to improve their mortality rates, should limit themselves to patients older than 6 months to improve their chance at recovery; I would imagine this would involve sending sub-6 month old patients to other facilities if at all possible, which may not have been possible in the case of Davi. Those were all facts, as reported in the article. The only one I've seen conflating the panel with 'expert consensus for the entire field' is you.

Then again, it's clear that I'm not nearly as emotionally invested/compromised in this article as you are.


(18-08-2015 03:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I doubt there is consensus on this issue.

Doubt all you want, but what evidence do you have for that doubt? Because I've yet to see it. There is a difference between being skeptical and being biased, and without any additional justification for your layman doubt of the an expert's opinion (or lack of consensus, as the case may be), I find it utterly uncompelling.


(18-08-2015 03:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  They presented one side and you got suckered into it.

No, I've readily admitted that I don't know enough to have a informed opinion on to whether or not CNN's numbers are both accurate and statistically significant. I only took umbrage with your selective presentation of the case and the evidence involved. I'm also uncompleted by your various what-if and special pleadings, so there is that as well.

Yes, I place greater significance on the facts and the opinions of the expert panel, not so much on your 'assumptions'.

There might be a case for saying CNN sensationalized their report, but you've utterly failed to support your own assumption based conclusions. Combine that with your nephew, and it doesn't surprise me that you're arguing more from emotion and grasping at straws. I also showed how if we're all just going to stand around with our dicks in our hands arguing over 'what-if' scenarios, we won't get anywhere meaningful.

What if more infants die because of the closure of the program?

Well, what if more survive because they now have to go to better programs?

It's a horse apiece Blowjob, and it gets you nowhere. It's a vapid emotional argument, nothing more.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
18-08-2015, 04:09 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 04:01 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:57 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Morondog's spelling sensationalised as he did is perfectly acceptable; it is the correct spelling of the word, as opposed to the American spelling.

You guys across the pond butcher that word just like you butcher aluminium......It's aluminum.

Take your case to the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry, which accepted the correct spelling ('aluminium') as the standard in 1990.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2015, 04:35 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 03:59 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:50 AM)morondog Wrote:  UK spelling, dickhead Smile ETA: I forgive you for being an ignorant clown.

Be careful about forgiving people....apparently the forum team has deemed public forgiveness to be a SPAM(I got a warning in a PM from a mod. It was nebulous so I am only guessing here....but I think it was about me responding to insults with forgiveness).

I wouldn't want to see you banned.

No worries mate, the blatant egalitarianism exhibited by the forum team should ensure that if anyone goes it'll be you Thumbsup Dear Lord Jesus is my mate after all.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
18-08-2015, 07:10 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 04:01 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 03:57 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Morondog's spelling sensationalised as he did is perfectly acceptable; it is the correct spelling of the word, as opposed to the American spelling.

You guys across the pond butcher that word just like you butcher aluminium......It's aluminum.

Quote:The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990 but, three years later, recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
18-08-2015, 10:25 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 12:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  CNN takes credit for stopping a hospital from preforming heart surgeries.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/17/health/st-...index.html

I remember when CNN first reported that the mortality rate was higher at this particular hospital, I thought, "Maybe it is just bad variance....random happenstance....noise". Even the best hitters in baseball have a slumps.

Now, because of CNN(they're taking credit after all), this life saving service just got more scarce.

Should CNN be ashamed or proud?

I'm leaning that they really should be ashamed. What do you guys think?

I believe that you have probably not considered all the pertinent facts. I also believe that your analysis is probably affected by conformation bias. I.E. "It is CNN that bastion of liberal socialism so it must be wrong."

Some of the pertinent facts I doubt you have considered are:

1. The Saint Mary's pediatric heart surgery program is relatively new and low volume. There are other well established higher volume pediatric heart surgery units in the area. These existing established programs have no problem meeting current area demands for these types of surgeries.

2. Saint Mary's requested an independent review of their program. The review was requested after in became apparent that Saint Mary's was referring a higher than usual (for comparable programs) number of post operation patients to other area hospitals due to complications Saint Mary's was not equipped to deal with.

3. The results of the review ((available here) indicated significant problems with the Saint Mary's program.

4. The CNN investigation began after the report was released.

5. The decision to close the Saint Mary's pediatric heart surgery unit was made by Saint Mary's. The main reason for the decision was difficulty obtaining the volume of patients required to maintain a successful program.

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

[Image: anigrey.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Popeye's Pappy's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: