Should CNN be proud of this?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18-08-2015, 12:26 PM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 12:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  CNN takes credit for stopping a hospital from preforming heart surgeries.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/17/health/st-...index.html

I remember when CNN first reported that the mortality rate was higher at this particular hospital, I thought, "Maybe it is just bad variance....random happenstance....noise". Even the best hitters in baseball have a slumps.

Now, because of CNN(they're taking credit after all), this life saving service just got more scarce.

Should CNN be ashamed or proud?

I'm leaning that they really should be ashamed. What do you guys think?

No. Obviously you don't get how the system works. There are many fully accredited and competent sites in Florida, public, private and academic for children to have CV surgeries. There is no "scarcity" at all. Your assumptions are invalid. CNN is to be applauded for saving many children's lives.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-08-2015, 02:30 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 10:25 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  5. The decision to close the Saint Mary's pediatric heart surgery unit was made by Saint Mary's. The main reason for the decision was difficulty obtaining the volume of patients required to maintain a successful program.

I'm sure it became a whole lot more difficult to obtain necessary volume after the CNN story. After that hatchet job, it was pretty much inevitable they would have to close their doors. Who would take their kid there after reading that article? Even I wouldn't. I'd feel awful if my kid died there after reading that article. If my kid died in that hospital, after reading that article, I'd feel more awful than I would if my kid died at one of the "good" hospitals.

I question the assumption that you need to do 100 surgeries per year to be competent. But even if that is true how does a new provider go instantly from 0 surgeries per year to 100? I imagine it would take several years.

If more hospitals were performing these surgeries there would be more competition which would lower prices. These surgeries are expensive and the reason they are expensive is because they are scarce. CNN helped make them more scarce.

And to morondog, I do forgive you for calling me a dick. I hope one day you will abandon petty insults.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-08-2015, 05:34 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
As I suspected you aren't interested in learning the facts. Only bashing what you perceive as a liberal organization. If you had bothered to read the report I linked you would know that new providers aren't expected to go from zero to a hundred instantly. You would know new providers are expected to enter into a formal agreement with another program that allows them to exchange staff in order for their staff to be properly trained while they build the volume necessary for their staff to acquire and maintain the level of skill necessary to perform these delicate operations. A relationship Saint Mary's didn't have.

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

[Image: anigrey.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Popeye's Pappy's post
19-08-2015, 07:33 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2015 09:02 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 02:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  When discussing these things in this forum, I am going to be better understood by using the term "streaks" than I would if I used the phrase "deviation from the mean".

I forgive you for implying that I'm too dim to understand elementary statistics.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like GirlyMan's post
19-08-2015, 08:10 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2015 08:16 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(18-08-2015 10:25 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  3. The results of the review ((available here) indicated significant problems with the Saint Mary's program.
Great find! And great read! There was certainly nothing even resembling a witch hunt going on there. No hint of blame or malice or any bias. They were genuinely trying to help the hospital. The suggestions look like common sense in this layperson's opinion. 1) Establish affiliations and staff-sharing with other surrounding hospitals providing pediatric heart surgery. 2) Gradually take on more complicated cases. 3) You got two pediatric cardiology groups. Merge them. 4) Do 1) & 3) before 2). ... oh, and while you're at it consider hiring more than one onsite pediatric cardiac surgeon. Dr. Black is exceptional but he should have some relief and probably should be mentoring as well.

I'm sure St. Mary's isn't pleased with the publicity but I'd bet they appreciate the suggestions.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
19-08-2015, 08:31 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2015 09:37 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(19-08-2015 02:30 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I question the assumption that you need to do 100 surgeries per year to be competent. But even if that is true how does a new provider go instantly from 0 surgeries per year to 100? I imagine it would take several years.

No. The approximate number is well documented, and it's not 'an assumption". There are data to support it. You are simply ignorant here.

(19-08-2015 02:30 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If more hospitals were performing these surgeries there would be more competition which would lower prices. These surgeries are expensive and the reason they are expensive is because they are scarce. CNN helped make them more scarce.

That's not how pricing in medicine works. You know NOTHING about the field, and nothing was made scarce. More ignorant bullshit from Blowme. There is not one documented case of price increase caused by this, or patients having to wait for CV surgical procedures. You just make up shit, and think it will fly. We're not that stupid.

I hope someday you will abandon your ignorant trolling of TTA.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Bucky Ball's post
20-08-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(19-08-2015 08:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. The approximate number is well documented, and it's not 'an assumption". There are data to support it. You are simply ignorant here.

If there is documentation to support your claim then produce it.

And yes, the more widely available a surgery is, the cheaper it becomes. Lasik is a perfect example. It is you who is ignorant and doesn't know what you're talking about. I hope that you would leave this thread so that knowledgeable adults can discuss it free of your ignorance.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-08-2015, 01:10 PM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(19-08-2015 05:34 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  As I suspected you aren't interested in learning the facts. Only bashing what you perceive as a liberal organization. If you had bothered to read the report I linked you would know that new providers aren't expected to go from zero to a hundred instantly. You would know new providers are expected to enter into a formal agreement with another program that allows them to exchange staff in order for their staff to be properly trained while they build the volume necessary for their staff to acquire and maintain the level of skill necessary to perform these delicate operations. A relationship Saint Mary's didn't have.

CNN should have let its readers know that variations of death rates between hospitals can also be the result of chance and not ineptitude. It doesn't matter who put out the story, I would be critical of it. It was sloppy. Last, I do not think CNN put it out because they are "liberal"....I think they put it out because it is sensational.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-08-2015, 02:20 PM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2015 04:47 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(20-08-2015 01:06 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 08:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. The approximate number is well documented, and it's not 'an assumption". There are data to support it. You are simply ignorant here.

If there is documentation to support your claim then produce it.

And yes, the more widely available a surgery is, the cheaper it becomes. Lasik is a perfect example. It is you who is ignorant and doesn't know what you're talking about. I hope that you would leave this thread so that knowledgeable adults can discuss it free of your ignorance.

I will get it. The fact that you know nothing about it, demonstrates your ignorance of the experience factor in surgery, both from the standpoint of the physician, and the staff. It is well documented, and widely accepted in medicine and surgery.

Edit : Here ya go : http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...2308022514
"We sought to determine the association between pediatric cardiac surgical volume and mortality using sophisticated case-mix adjustment and a national clinical database."
Journal of Cardio-Thoracic Surgery.
Every surgical sub-specialty has done similar studies, and they are out there, and all show similar findings.

You have not a shred of evidence for your claim about cheaper prices. Your example of Lasik surgery is non applicable. CV surgeries are not OP (outpatient) surgeries, nor are they elective surgeries. You have not a shred of evidence for what you claim, and indeed you demonstrate your complete ignorance of the field in general. There is no evidence that a Lasik practitioner being shut down increases wait times, or costs to others. There is not a shred of evidence that Cardio-thoracic surgeons alter their fee schedules, or that hospitals alter their fees, (or that insurance carriers, who make the deccsions on reimbursements, and NOT AT ALL based on availabilities) change their scheduling patterns or reimbursements, based on available dates, or a change in those dates in the short run. Lasik is a private-pay business, optional, elective, fairly inexpensive and not generally covered by insurance. Heart surgeries cost upwards of $50,000, are NOT elective or for the most part not optional. Your example is ridiculous, but proves you are talking out your ass, as per your usual. In fact, it may easlily be found (one could not know with out a study), that it may be more efficient to consolidate these high cost, high-expertise services, in the long-run, in fewer places, and therefore it is entirely possible the costs may go DOWN, and outcomes improve). You are a fucking idiot. You have no experience in this field. That is more than obvious. And you know NOTHING about what your talking about. I have a CV surgeon that lives in my house. You don't know even one.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
22-08-2015, 08:17 PM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
Cat got your tongue, Heywood ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: