Should CNN be proud of this?
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28-08-2015, 12:03 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(27-08-2015 08:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Completely false analogy. But the usual stupid tripe from you-know-who.
If a surgeon's cases have a higher than expected, or higher than acceptable rate of complications, then he/she needs additional training, or some sort of intervention. It's how medicine works, AND SHOCKINGLY how QA programs work in EVERY INDUStRY today. There are various models of these, (such as Six Sigma), but they work in about the same way. Quality Assurance has been PROVEN to improve outcomes. It makes patients safe. It's called "science".

No wonder this guy talks as if he's from the 18th Century. He IS !! Weeping

Dumbass. And I say that in the most charitable way possible. Tongue

Of course you are full of shit. A higher than expected complication rate isn't necessarily a skills issue with the surgeon. A surgeon can have a higher than expected rate of complication simply because the autoclave that is used to sterilize his instruments has an undetected defect. You don't know what you are talking about and should just shut your trap instead of continuing to embarrass yourself.
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28-08-2015, 12:08 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 12:03 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You don't know what you are talking about and should just shut your trap instead of continuing to embarrass yourself.

Laughat How about you take your own advice, Mr Surgeon General?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-08-2015, 12:18 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 12:08 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 12:03 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You don't know what you are talking about and should just shut your trap instead of continuing to embarrass yourself.

Laughat How about you take your own advice, Mr Surgeon General?

Bucky's claim was false and it was trivially easy to show that it was false. You loose credibility when you continue to defend it.
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28-08-2015, 12:20 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 12:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 12:08 AM)morondog Wrote:  Laughat How about you take your own advice, Mr Surgeon General?

Bucky's claim was false and it was trivially easy to show that it was false. You loose credibility when you continue to defend it.

Rolleyes *Your* claim was false and easily shown to be false.

See how easy it is?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-08-2015, 12:22 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 12:20 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 12:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Bucky's claim was false and it was trivially easy to show that it was false. You loose credibility when you continue to defend it.

Rolleyes *Your* claim was false and easily shown to be false.

See how easy it is?

What claim are you talking about? Your accusation is underhanded because it is so nebulous. When I was critical of Bucky, I spelled out exactly the claim he made and why it was wrong.
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28-08-2015, 12:47 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 12:22 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 12:20 AM)morondog Wrote:  Rolleyes *Your* claim was false and easily shown to be false.

See how easy it is?

What claim are you talking about? Your accusation is underhanded because it is so nebulous. When I was critical of Bucky, I spelled out exactly the claim he made and why it was wrong.

The claim you made where you claimed that Bucky was wrong Rolleyes You just post a load of nonsense and tried to pretend. I reflected the same behaviour at you and suddenly it became "underhanded". How do ya like them apples, troll?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-08-2015, 01:21 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 12:03 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 08:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Completely false analogy. But the usual stupid tripe from you-know-who.
If a surgeon's cases have a higher than expected, or higher than acceptable rate of complications, then he/she needs additional training, or some sort of intervention. It's how medicine works, AND SHOCKINGLY how QA programs work in EVERY INDUStRY today. There are various models of these, (such as Six Sigma), but they work in about the same way. Quality Assurance has been PROVEN to improve outcomes. It makes patients safe. It's called "science".

No wonder this guy talks as if he's from the 18th Century. He IS !! Weeping

Dumbass. And I say that in the most charitable way possible. Tongue

Of course you are full of shit. A higher than expected complication rate isn't necessarily a skills issue with the surgeon. A surgeon can have a higher than expected rate of complication simply because the autoclave that is used to sterilize his instruments has an undetected defect. You don't know what you are talking about and should just shut your trap instead of continuing to embarrass yourself.

And if the program in question had been entirely up to snuff and the staff all adequately skilled and trained, then the expert oversight panel should have noted that and recommended not making any changes; attributing the higher-than-average mortality rate to a statistical fluke.

But they didn't. Something they saw during their evaluation caused them to recommend, in their professional expert opinions, that the program limit itself to infants older than 6 months. That non-binding recommendation was subsequently ignored, and another infant died post surgery.

Even assuming, as you do, that the hospital staff is entirely without fault here and that this all could be blamed an a magically undetectable autoclave malfunction (possible, but not even remotely probable, especially given that your argument is all conjecture and no evidence); then the hospital has shown a remarkable level of negligence in ignoring the panel's recommendation in limiting itself to older patients. Older patients have a much greater chance of survival, mysteriously defective autoclave or not. If they have a problem they are otherwise unable to fix or correct for, then continuing to take on the most dangerous operations is doing nothing more than needlessly endangering the lives of their patients.

There is one person who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about here, and it's the one continuously pulling excuses out of thin air to attempt to feebly deflect all criticism.

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28-08-2015, 01:48 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 01:21 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Even assuming, as you do, that the hospital staff is entirely without fault here and that this all could be blamed an a magically undetectable autoclave malfunction (possible, but not even remotely probable, especially given that your argument is all conjecture and no evidence); then the hospital has shown a remarkable level of negligence in ignoring the panel's recommendation in limiting itself to older patients. Older patients have a much greater chance of survival, mysteriously defective autoclave or not. If they have a problem they are otherwise unable to fix or correct for, then continuing to take on the most dangerous operations is doing nothing more than needlessly endangering the lives of their patients.

The autoclave was just a plausible example to show that Bucky's statement was simply false. It has nothing to do with this hospital program or why these children died. It sole purpose is to discredit the claim made by Bucky....that if a surgeon has a higher than normal complication rate, it is certainly his fault. Obviously and unsurprisingly Bucky's statement is garbage.

I do not assume that the staff is without fault. I simply do not assume they are at fault. That is the error made by you, by CNN, and by the "panel of experts" who really don't have the required expertise to be doing statistical analysis.

I think it is a shame that a hospital program was shut down do to, as Nurse put it, a sensational news article.
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28-08-2015, 01:59 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 01:48 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I do not assume that the staff is without fault. I simply do not assume they are at fault. That is the error made by you, by CNN, and by the "panel of experts" who really don't have the required expertise to be doing statistical analysis.
So show us your "credentials" to judge that the "panel of experts" don't have the required expertise. You're now a master statistician too?

Quote:I think it is a shame that a hospital program was shut down do to, as Nurse put it, a sensational news article.
Rolleyes News reporters don't shut down programmes. While sensationalist news might well make it more difficult for medical professionals to do their jobs, the hospital administration are the ones who make the call on whether or not to keep a programme running.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-08-2015, 02:02 AM
RE: Should CNN be proud of this?
(28-08-2015 01:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 01:48 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I do not assume that the staff is without fault. I simply do not assume they are at fault. That is the error made by you, by CNN, and by the "panel of experts" who really don't have the required expertise to be doing statistical analysis.
So show us your "credentials" to judge that the "panel of experts" don't have the required expertise. You're now a master statistician too?

Quote:I think it is a shame that a hospital program was shut down do to, as Nurse put it, a sensational news article.
Rolleyes News reporters don't shut down programmes. While sensationalist news might well make it more difficult for medical professionals to do their jobs, the hospital administration are the ones who make the call on whether or not to keep a programme running.

First show me your credentials which allows you to accurately discribe the panel as "experts". What makes you expert in knowing when a panel is full of experts and when it isn't? Oh....I know...CNN told you it was a panel of experts and since you don't think for yourself....you just take their word for it....they must be a panel of experts.

You are not a morondog. You are a naivedog.
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