Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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30-12-2013, 12:53 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 12:37 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Good thread. I proposed this myself about a year ago.

Yes, I believe there should be an opt out period in the first 3 or 6 months of pregnancy where if a man states, "I do not want this child, or any part in this child's life." Then he should not legally be required to pay child support. If women have the choice for abortion, men should have the choice for being part of that child's life (both emotionally and monetarily).

IMO, if a woman chooses to have the kid when the man does not want the kid, she should be prepared to raise it without his help. Enslaving his wallet for 18 years is BS, when he has no say if the abortion happens or not.

The man should also have a say on abortion. If the man is willing to raise the child on his own, taking full responsibility, then he should have the right to do so.

I had a friend who got his girlfriend pregnant and she wanted an abortion, but he did not want an abortion. He said he would take full responsibility for the child and raise it on his own. She got an abortion anyway, and it was very difficult for him. I don't think he will ever fully get over it.

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30-12-2013, 12:59 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2013 01:26 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 12:53 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  The man should also have a say on abortion. If the man is willing to raise the child on his own, taking full responsibility, then he should have the right to do so.

I had a friend who got his girlfriend pregnant and she wanted an abortion, but he did not want an abortion. He said he would take full responsibility for the child and raise it on his own. She got an abortion anyway, and it was very difficult for him. I don't think he will ever fully get over it.
If the baby was grown in a test tube, then sure. But since the baby is part of the woman's body, which she has sovereignty over, nobody can (or should be able to) legally force her to do anything with her body that she doesn't want.

And yes, I acknowledge that it can be very emotionally damaging to men who feel like they have lost a child due to abortion. But a sad man still doesn't own a woman's body.

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30-12-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 12:59 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 12:53 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  The man should also have a say on abortion. If the man is willing to raise the child on his own, taking full responsibility, then he should have the right to do so.

I had a friend who got his girlfriend pregnant and she wanted an abortion, but he did not want an abortion. He said he would take full responsibility for the child and raise it on his own. She got an abortion anyway, and it was very difficult for him. I don't think he will ever fully get over it.
If the baby was grown in a test tube, then sure. But since the baby is part of the woman's body, which she has sovereignty over, nobody can (or should be able to) legally force her to do anything with her body that she doesn't want.

And yes, I acknowledge that it can be very emotionally damaging to men who feel like they have lost a child due to abortion. But a sad man still doesn't own a woman's body.

So men have to take responsibility for the results of consenting sex, but women don't? When she had unprotected sex she knew the possibility of her getting pregnant, just as much as he did. We tell a man "If you don't want the responsibility of having a baby, keep your dick in your pants, otherwise pay the consequences, and no matter whether you want the baby or not, even if you are willing to raise the child yourself, you're fucked if the woman doesn't agree with you", but we never tell a woman "keep your legs closed, because if you don't want the baby, but the father does, and is willing to take full responsibility for the child, then he has a right to do so". It's total hypocrisy.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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30-12-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 12:53 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  The man should also have a say on abortion. If the man is willing to raise the child on his own, taking full responsibility, then he should have the right to do so.

I had a friend who got his girlfriend pregnant and she wanted an abortion, but he did not want an abortion. He said he would take full responsibility for the child and raise it on his own. She got an abortion anyway, and it was very difficult for him. I don't think he will ever fully get over it.
Offtopic

And no. It's her body that it's growing in and abortions are generally much more traumatic for women.

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30-12-2013, 02:29 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2013 02:38 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
You do understand my position on this, right? I dont understand what you are accusing me of.

In case my position isnt clear. I Heart abortion. I believe in a person's sovereignty over their own body (aka, pro choice). I believe a person's independent decision to not abort should not legally cause 18 years of financial hardship on another individual.

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30-12-2013, 02:33 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 12:53 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 12:37 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Good thread. I proposed this myself about a year ago.

Yes, I believe there should be an opt out period in the first 3 or 6 months of pregnancy where if a man states, "I do not want this child, or any part in this child's life." Then he should not legally be required to pay child support. If women have the choice for abortion, men should have the choice for being part of that child's life (both emotionally and monetarily).

IMO, if a woman chooses to have the kid when the man does not want the kid, she should be prepared to raise it without his help. Enslaving his wallet for 18 years is BS, when he has no say if the abortion happens or not.

The man should also have a say on abortion. If the man is willing to raise the child on his own, taking full responsibility, then he should have the right to do so.

I had a friend who got his girlfriend pregnant and she wanted an abortion, but he did not want an abortion. He said he would take full responsibility for the child and raise it on his own. She got an abortion anyway, and it was very difficult for him. I don't think he will ever fully get over it.
It's not his body to speak for. It's hers, and he should respect that, or just get over it.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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30-12-2013, 02:36 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 02:17 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  So men have to take responsibility for the results of consenting sex, but women don't? When she had unprotected sex she knew the possibility of her getting pregnant, just as much as he did. We tell a man "If you don't want the responsibility of having a baby, keep your dick in your pants, otherwise pay the consequences, and no matter whether you want the baby or not, even if you are willing to raise the child yourself, you're fucked if the woman doesn't agree with you", but we never tell a woman "keep your legs closed, because if you don't want the baby, but the father does, and is willing to take full responsibility for the child, then he has a right to do so". It's total hypocrisy.
It would be hyposcrisy if both men and women could get pregnant. The outcome of sex (a baby) isn't equal for the sexes since only one of the participating parties involved grows that outcome inside their own body, and I'm pretty sure every man knows this beforehand. So...-
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30-12-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 09:37 AM)Question Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 06:26 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  If tried to force me to pay against my will... well it totally violates everything I stand for. I don't know what I would do.

Probably quit my job, and go on welfare indefinitely, and take up a drug habit to ensure I never reach the income threshold where I have to pay a single cent. Become a terrible burden on society and become part of the worlds ills. Just to make a statement. (... ok maybe not... but still....)

Some women really take advantage of this legislation - and I feel sorry for those children growing up with a mother like that. I've met a woman who was proud of it and had multiple kids from different fathers. My Ex GF's colleague who no longer is working. She did quite well for herself. Got a herself a viable lifestyle and much better income than me without having to work. That sort of thing makes me sick and angry at the same time.

Here there are government welfare programs for this sort of thing. No need to extort money from unwilling fathers.

If I'm not mistaken welfare is getting a cut?

What is it you are after here. Turning baby making into a viable job? The way it is right now. Getting pregnant is damn easy. Doesnt deserve a gold and diamond encrusted medalion IMO.

If every man who was forced into this decided to liquidate their assets and become a burden on society in protest how long would it take before this legistlation was altered to become more reasonable?

Probably pass new legistlation almost immediately.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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30-12-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
Coming in late to this conversation, and I've enjoyed the diverse opinions.

I think a LOT of people need to use more and better birth control. And abortion should be kept legal, inexpensive, and accessible. The idiots are far out-breeding us, folks...

I would like to think that having a child is a good thing, and should probably have emotional support by both parents if it's gonna happen at all. But alas, we live in an imperfect world!

As far as child support goes, I don't really know how to answer the question, because it is complicated. I would err on the side of the status quo that paying child support is probably a good thing for more people, but it requires a lot of adjustments.

Something witty.
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30-12-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 02:39 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 09:37 AM)Question Wrote:  If I'm not mistaken welfare is getting a cut?

What is it you are after here. Turning baby making into a viable job? The way it is right now. Getting pregnant is damn easy. Doesnt deserve a gold and diamond encrusted medalion IMO.

If every man who was forced into this decided to liquidate their assets and become a burden on society in protest how long would it take before this legistlation was altered to become more reasonable?

Probably pass new legistlation almost immediately.
I was asking if Welfare was getting a cut, that's what I was there for.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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