Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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30-12-2013, 03:02 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 02:17 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 12:59 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  If the baby was grown in a test tube, then sure. But since the baby is part of the woman's body, which she has sovereignty over, nobody can (or should be able to) legally force her to do anything with her body that she doesn't want.

And yes, I acknowledge that it can be very emotionally damaging to men who feel like they have lost a child due to abortion. But a sad man still doesn't own a woman's body.

So men have to take responsibility for the results of consenting sex, but women don't? When she had unprotected sex she knew the possibility of her getting pregnant, just as much as he did. We tell a man "If you don't want the responsibility of having a baby, keep your dick in your pants, otherwise pay the consequences, and no matter whether you want the baby or not, even if you are willing to raise the child yourself, you're fucked if the woman doesn't agree with you", but we never tell a woman "keep your legs closed, because if you don't want the baby, but the father does, and is willing to take full responsibility for the child, then he has a right to do so". It's total hypocrisy.

No no no. He didn't say that a man should have to be responsible for a baby that he doesn't want. I think for the most part everyone here agrees that a man should not have to be responsible for a baby he doesn't want. You were talking about a baby that he does want. It is very sad that men lose babies that they want to abortion. It must be heartbreaking. But the fact remain that the baby cannot be removed from the woman's body and still survive and no matter how badly he might want that baby he has no rights over her body.
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30-12-2013, 06:02 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 02:29 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  You do understand my position on this, right? I dont understand what you are accusing me of.

In case my position isnt clear. I Heart abortion. I believe in a person's sovereignty over their own body (aka, pro choice). I believe a person's independent decision to not abort should not legally cause 18 years of financial hardship on another individual.

I do understand your position, and I was not making any accusations at you, merely just a difference of opinion on a certain part of the topic of abortion. I am all for the choice of abortion on just about any circumstance where the woman does not want the baby. The only one I do feel that a father should have a say is when he and the woman have consenting, unproteced sex, and the man is willing to take full responsibility for raising the child.

If you feel that the father should not be responsible for child support for a kid that he doesn't want, but the mother still chooses to have, then you're one of the few that actually supports some fathers rights.

Most of our society is incredibly hypocritical when it comes to parental rights. If the father takes responsibility for custody of the child after it is born, the mother is forced to pay no child support at all in most cases, and the ones where the mother does pay, the amount is so ridiculously low that she might as well not be paying at all. I remember reading a story about how a man took custody of his 3 children because the mother didn't want them, and you know much how the woman had to pay in child support? 27 dollars a month.

Fathers have basically no rights in our society. We allow women to go as far as making false claims about a man being the father of her child, and yet not only have no legal responsibility held against her, but forcing the man who she has been lying to to be responsible for child support, going so far as to throw him in jail for not complying. You sure as hell will NEVER hear of a mother going to jail for this.

If men are going to get no say in their child's birth, then we need to start giving men rights to their children when they are born.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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30-12-2013, 06:20 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
I agree with you mostly Windy, but I stand by my opinion that a man should not be able to force a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want. Under no circumstances would that ever be acceptable.

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30-12-2013, 06:38 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 06:20 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I agree with you mostly Windy, but I stand by my opinion that a man should not be able to force a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want. Under no circumstances would that ever be acceptable.

If we're not going to allow it, then we need to start doing something about fathers' rights in our society.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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30-12-2013, 06:42 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 02:56 PM)Question Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 02:39 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  What is it you are after here. Turning baby making into a viable job? The way it is right now. Getting pregnant is damn easy. Doesnt deserve a gold and diamond encrusted medalion IMO.

If every man who was forced into this decided to liquidate their assets and become a burden on society in protest how long would it take before this legistlation was altered to become more reasonable?

Probably pass new legistlation almost immediately.
I was asking if Welfare was getting a cut, that's what I was there for.

What cut? You want 50% of his income? No welfare isnt that.

Some aspects of the current system are broken. Child support shouldnt be abolished but it is rediculous in its current form.

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30-12-2013, 06:49 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 06:02 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  ...
I understand. It's cool if we don't agree Thumbsup. I think it is reasonable that fathers have a say in the abortion, but I think that a person's right to their own body trumps that possibility.

I think it's best to talk about this stuff before having sex with a new partner actually (or asap afterwards). But that probably never happens. If I actually knew a girl was against abortion, I wouldn't have sex with her even with condoms and the pill. Nothing is 100%, and abortion is the backup plan that doesn't fail, unless the girl lets it.

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30-12-2013, 06:54 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 06:23 PM)Bocaj910 Wrote:  Mandatory child support is unfair to men. Men only have one opportunity to get rid of the child --- the initial procreation. Women have a plethora of opportunities in comparison: contraception, morning-after pill, abortion, and then adoption. If the woman can't afford or didn't want the child, she should of taken advantage of these options. Of course, if the child is in poverty we should assist them, but they shouldn't be the responsibility of the father if he didn't want the child in the first place.

You're making a very broad assertion that only men pay child support.

There are ways of legally getting out of paying child support. All is needed is forfeiting all parental rights. Most people allow their arrogance to get in the way of that option though.

What about a man who raises a child that's not his for many years then abandons the relationship only to then argue he's not financially for the child -- even if he claimed full responsibity for the child during the relationship?


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30-12-2013, 07:03 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 06:54 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  There are ways of legally getting out of paying child support. All is needed is forfeiting all parental rights. Most people allow their arrogance to get in the way of that option though.
Is this true? I can't seem to find anything on getting out of child support by forfeiting parenting rights. Can anybody confirm this?

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30-12-2013, 07:08 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 07:03 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 06:54 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  There are ways of legally getting out of paying child support. All is needed is forfeiting all parental rights. Most people allow their arrogance to get in the way of that option though.
Is this true? I can't seem to find anything on getting out of child support by forfeiting parenting rights. Can anybody confirm this?

In some states it's as simple as getting a paper signed. In other jurisdictions you must go before a judge who orders your rights severed.

The catch is the other person must agree to it. I know a few people who have absolutely gone that route.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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30-12-2013, 07:12 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2013 07:15 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 06:54 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 06:23 PM)Bocaj910 Wrote:  Mandatory child support is unfair to men. Men only have one opportunity to get rid of the child --- the initial procreation. Women have a plethora of opportunities in comparison: contraception, morning-after pill, abortion, and then adoption. If the woman can't afford or didn't want the child, she should of taken advantage of these options. Of course, if the child is in poverty we should assist them, but they shouldn't be the responsibility of the father if he didn't want the child in the first place.

You're making a very broad assertion that only men pay child support.

There are ways of legally getting out of paying child support. All is needed is forfeiting all parental rights. Most people allow their arrogance to get in the way of that option though.

What about a man who raises a child that's not his for many years then abandons the relationship only to then argue he's not financially for the child -- even if he claimed full responsibity for the child during the relationship?

What about men who are lied to about a child being theirs, but still being forced to pay child support, and even jailed for not doing so? That is the kind of stuff that happens in our society today, and the woman aren't held legally responsible at all for lying to the man about it being his child.

If a man walks out of a relationship where he was financially helping to raise the child, but the child is not his, then he has every right to not have to pay child support. Do you think if it were a woman who got into a relationship with a single father and was financially helping to raise the child, then walked out on the relationship, do you think there is a chance in hell that she would ever be forced to pay child support? If the father tried to get child support from her, he'd be told "You should just be grateful that she helped out financially when she was there!" In the case of the man walking out, the man would be called a deadbeat asshole who should be forced to continue paying.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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