Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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30-12-2013, 11:57 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 11:20 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 10:48 PM)aquaquilter Wrote:  Ok. So what I'm seeing is we should ignore the responsibilities that come along with the privilege of having sex? When the heck do we say "grow up and be responsible for your choices "come into play?

I think the main issue here is that if a woman has the right to opt out (abortion) of the responsibilities, then should a man have that same right (I say yes!). The question is not whether or not you think people should take responsibility, because the fact is that women can and do have abortions. So accepting that women get to opt out of responsibility by having an abortion, do you think a man should have the same right to opt out before the birth of the baby?


Nope. I don't believe they should be able to opt out as there are consequences for one's actions. And I believe people should be decent enough to care for others whether that be through emotional, physical or financial support.

The articlele referenced below discusses this very topic. By no means am I jumping on board with everything it says but it does bring some other factors into the equation this have not been brought up in this thread.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20060321.html

"No matter which choice a pregnant woman makes - a choice that is (currently) hers by virtue of its substantial physical implications for her body -- the man who helped place her in the situation should not easily be able to wash his hands of the consequences. Barring extreme circumstances (such as those discussed in an earlier column), the availability of abortion should not relieve men of equal responsibility for the children they help create, once those children do make their way into the world."

"With an increasing number of single-parent families on the scene, it is perhaps high time that we embraced the idea that every one of us bears responsibility to protect every child. Until such a time, however, biological fathers, and eventually mothers, will be - and probably should be - financially on the line for their offspring."
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30-12-2013, 11:57 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
theres a movie due to be released in January 2014 called Divorce Corp

since I'm an australia I dont think I'll be able to see it
it looks like it could be relevant to the topic
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31-12-2013, 12:00 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 12:56 AM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 10:48 PM)aquaquilter Wrote:  Women are also responsible for child support. As a former caseworker, I've known women to end up in jail for not paying. Also, if a man believes the child is not his he can get a paternity test! Yep, those things are science-y and hold up in court.

You are totally wrong there. Check out this case of a man who was lied to about a kid being his - this was proven by a paternity test! - was still forced to pay child support after he left, then was thrown in jail because he wasn't able to pay child support because he lost his job:

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/man-jai...-no/nQHyf/

Show me ONE SINGLE CASE of this happening to a woman!

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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31-12-2013, 12:07 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:00 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  You are totally wrong there. Check out this case of a man who was lies to about a kid being his - this was proven by a paternity test! - was still forced to pay child support after he left, then was thrown in jail because he wasn't able to pay child support because he lost his job:
also paternity test is illegal in france
yea ... just think about that how many men are ATM's Without even being the sperm donor
also Sperm Donor have been Being Ordered To Pay Child Support before
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31-12-2013, 12:09 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 12:12 AM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
Double Post

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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31-12-2013, 12:09 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 12:14 AM by aquaquilter.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:00 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 10:48 PM)aquaquilter Wrote:  Women are also responsible for child support. As a former caseworker, I've known women to end up in jail for not paying. Also, if a man believes the child is not his he can get a paternity test! Yep, those things are science-y and hold up in court.

You are totally wrong there. Check out this case of a man who was lies to about a kid being his - this was proven by a paternity test! - was still forced to pay child support after he left, then was thrown in jail because he wasn't able to pay child support because he lost his job:

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/man-jai...-no/nQHyf/

Show me ONE SINGLE CASE of this happening to a woman!

Well thank jeebus I live in a state that uses paternity tests.

Additionally the mother of this child should be sued as she abused the system to steal thousand of dollars from a man that never biologically fathered the child. I believe he has plenty enough reason to sue the county for their role in an effort to change the law. Unfortunately that requires funding which has been ripped from him.
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31-12-2013, 12:21 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:00 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 10:48 PM)aquaquilter Wrote:  Women are also responsible for child support. As a former caseworker, I've known women to end up in jail for not paying. Also, if a man believes the child is not his he can get a paternity test! Yep, those things are science-y and hold up in court.

You are totally wrong there. Check out this case of a man who was lies to about a kid being his - this was proven by a paternity test! - was still forced to pay child support after he left, then was thrown in jail because he wasn't able to pay child support because he lost his job:

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/man-jai...-no/nQHyf/

Show me ONE SINGLE CASE of this happening to a woman!

Umm lmao. One single case where a man lied to a woman that the baby was hers? I think she'd probably notice that said baby did not grow in her uterus and pop out of her vagina.

What you're talking about does happen to men, in most states they have a limited time to ask for a paternity test. I think it's like 30 days. Could be a year, I don't really know.
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31-12-2013, 12:43 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:07 AM)Imdefender Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 12:00 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  You are totally wrong there. Check out this case of a man who was lies to about a kid being his - this was proven by a paternity test! - was still forced to pay child support after he left, then was thrown in jail because he wasn't able to pay child support because he lost his job:
also paternity test is illegal in france
yea ... just think about that how many men are ATM's Without even being the sperm donor
also Sperm Donor have been Being Ordered To Pay Child Support before

France's child support laws seem very different. Very interesting too.

http://www.childpolicyintl.org/childsupp...rance.html

"There are two main benefits for lone parents, Allocation Soutien Familial (ASF), a noncontributory benefit for families where there is no second parent; and Allocation de Parent Isole (API) a means-tested and more generous alternative to Revenue Minimum D'Insertion (RMI), the general social assistance benefit, it is payable for 12 months after divorce or separation or until the youngest child is three years old. When API eligibility ceases the lone parent may claim RMI, which involves making a contrat d'insertion (which may include participation in a job creation or training programme). Most lone parents are in employment, but they have been disproportionately affected by recent rises in unemployment.

When a child is born in France the father does not have to be named, and where this is the case there is no obligation to maintain, and entitlement to ASF follows. Where there is a recognised father, he has an obligation to maintain which if not met gives rise to ASF."

The sperm donor case is pretty strange. The couple didn't go through a sperm bank, they went to craigslist to find a willing donor. Antiquated laws aren't set up for the new definition of families being recognized by society. Can anyone find an update to this case? The article is just about a year old and an initial seArch didn't come up with anything. Not sure if this can be public knowledge as technically a child is involved
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31-12-2013, 12:45 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
I don't know about child support, but I'm certain that men reproductive rights need to be debated more deeply than just "keep it in your pants". That argument is as misandryst as the "she provoked him to rape her" is misogynist

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31-12-2013, 12:52 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 01:12 AM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:21 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 12:00 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  You are totally wrong there. Check out this case of a man who was lies to about a kid being his - this was proven by a paternity test! - was still forced to pay child support after he left, then was thrown in jail because he wasn't able to pay child support because he lost his job:

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/man-jai...-no/nQHyf/

Show me ONE SINGLE CASE of this happening to a woman!

Umm lmao. One single case where a man lied to a woman that the baby was hers? I think she'd probably notice that said baby did not grow in her uterus and pop out of her vagina.

I didn't say a man lying to a woman about a kid not being hers. I said a woman not paying child support for a kid that is not hers - as in she gets into a relationship with a man who has a child from a previous relationship, then leaves and is forced to pay child support.

I was pointing out that it's even more ridiculous that the man was lied to, proven by a paternity test not to be the father, and STILL thrown in jail. That's crazier than him being forced to pay child support for a relationship that he had with a single parent and helped raise the kid. Though that would still be ridiculously unfair, it's not as crazy as the case where the man was lied to.

Show me one case of that kind of situation where a woman is forced to pay child support for a child when she is not the biological mother - merely a woman who got into a relationship with a single father, and on top of it, thrown in jail for not paying.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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