Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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31-12-2013, 02:32 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 02:37 AM by Imdefender.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:45 AM)nach_in Wrote:  I don't know about child support, but I'm certain that men reproductive rights need to be debated more deeply than just "keep it in your pants". That argument is as misandryst as the "she provoked him to rape her" is misogynist

then invest Contraception for men by donating to Vasalgel

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31-12-2013, 04:55 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(30-12-2013 11:57 PM)aquaquilter Wrote:  "With an increasing number of single-parent families on the scene, it is perhaps high time that we embraced the idea that every one of us bears responsibility to protect every child. Until such a time, however, biological fathers, and eventually mothers, will be - and probably should be - financially on the line for their offspring."

That sounds like a suggestion for society in general to pay child support, and I have problems with the idea of being forced to pay for other people's poor decisions.

I can completely get behind the second sentence though.

On the other hand, I think there is a natural human drive to protect children - even ones that aren't ours. As I was typing this, I remembered that in the past I voluntarily sponsored several children through World Vision which is a little ironic considering that my knee jerk reaction to reading that paragraph was "don't force me to pay for other people's brats." Consider

Or maybe it just illustrates a a larger principle that as social apes we really do care about our neighbors but don't act like it when someone puts a gun to our head, takes our money, and gives it to them.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

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31-12-2013, 05:08 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 04:55 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  That sounds like a suggestion for society in general to pay child support, and I have problems with the idea of being forced to pay for other people's poor decisions.

that already happens Women already have the right to Abandon there kids and make the taxpayer well... pay
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31-12-2013, 05:24 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 05:08 AM)Imdefender Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 04:55 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  That sounds like a suggestion for society in general to pay child support, and I have problems with the idea of being forced to pay for other people's poor decisions.

that already happens Women already have the right to Abandon there kids and make the taxpayer well... pay

For some reason I don't mind that so much.

Maybe it's because I have an image of unwanted babies being mistreated, neglected, abused, etc. and see this as a preferable outcome. It's still sad though.

I think there's a fundamental difference here between a single mom who has kids then asks us to pay for them and a mom who recognizes that she can't (or won't) care for them and gives them up.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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31-12-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 06:23 PM)Bocaj910 Wrote:  Mandatory child support is unfair to men. Men only have one opportunity to get rid of the child --- the initial procreation. Women have a plethora of opportunities in comparison: contraception, morning-after pill, abortion, and then adoption. If the woman can't afford or didn't want the child, she should of taken advantage of these options. Of course, if the child is in poverty we should assist them, but they shouldn't be the responsibility of the father if he didn't want the child in the first place.
I'm sorry, I haven't read a single other post yet in this thread, but I was too pissed off after reading this and felt compelled to reply now. Angry

"Get rid of the child"? We're not talking about property here! This is a human being who didn't ask to be brought into the world and relies on adults to survive and grow and all you can think about is a man's "opportunity" to get rid of the child??? I'm guessing you don't have any children... or, if you do, you shouldn't.

Any man who impregnates a woman resulting in the birth of a child is equally responsible for that child. Period.

Any man who isn't willing to accept that responsibility shouldn't be doing anything that risks impregnating a women. Period.

If a woman gets pregnant and the man doesn't want the child, well tough shit! That's life. Actions have consequences. It's the man's own fault for getting into that position. So man up and accept the responsibility.

As for child support, that's the LEAST a man can do. And, if it's ALL a man is doing, shame on him (unless there is a good reason such as he's violent and a court has ordered him not to have direct involvement - but if he's violent, shame on him for that too).

Children are beautiful. Why anyone would want to make excuses to have nothing to do with them is completely beyond me!

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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31-12-2013, 09:52 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
I pay $32k a year in child support for two kids, and do so gladly. It was my choice to have help create them, and my choice to leave their mother. Life is to short to be miserable, and you only get one life, might as well enjoy the ride. Thankfully their mother and I are great friends still and all go out together as a group often (ex and her new husband, me and my wife, and our kids)...because in the end, the kid's didnt have a choice, you brought them in the world, abandonment isn't a valid option, neither is non financial support.
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31-12-2013, 10:00 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 07:31 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  This is really a simple matter.

Two people of opposite sexes , who are, we gonna assume equally (held ) responsible for their actions , have unprotected sex.

Her choices:
1. morning after pill
2. abortion
3. carrying the child to term and then giving it up for adoption
4. keeping the baby

His choices:
None

If he want's to have a baby but she doesn't...sorry bro, you don't get to be a daddy.

If he doesn't want to keep the baby but she does...sorry bro, next 20 years of your life you will pay unreasonable amounts of money to support a child you didn't want.

Obviously some consider this arrangement to be fair.
I beg to differ.
As the woman is the one who physically carries the baby or physically gets the abortion, yes it does give her some extra rights that the man doesn't get.

The man (unless he is completely stupid) is fully aware of this situation when he decides to have sex. So there is no excuse for his not accepting responsibility - whatever that means - after the fact.

You're right, it is simple. Don't like the situation? Don't have the sex. Very simple indeed.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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31-12-2013, 10:09 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 09:52 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I pay $32k a year in child support for two kids, and do so gladly. It was my choice to have help create them, and my choice to leave their mother. Life is to short to be miserable, and you only get one life, might as well enjoy the ride. Thankfully their mother and I are great friends still and all go out together as a group often (ex and her new husband, me and my wife, and our kids)...because in the end, the kid's didnt have a choice, you brought them in the world, abandonment isn't a valid option, neither is non financial support.


Thank you for typing "...and do so gladly" for those are the best words a man can say (whatever the amount is).

Key word - Man.

Always a pleasure to meet a real man. Always.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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31-12-2013, 10:09 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 07:51 PM)Foxen Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 07:47 PM)Crulax Wrote:  I'm sorry maybe I'm just a man that would stand up and take responsibility for his actions in the matter!

That is quite noble.

However, if a woman can shirk her responsibility by aborting, then so should the man have be able to shirk his responsbility by wanting nothing to do with the child and not being held accountable for child suppport.
One thing that you're missing is, when a man walks away, it completely changes the picture for the woman. Maybe the woman wants the child, but wants the father to be there for the child too. If the father walks away, now she is stuck raising that child herself if she still decides to keep it. Her "choices" have changed. Now, perhaps out of financial necessity even for the welfare of the potential child, she may have to get the abortion and undertake a medical risk even if it's not what she would really want to do. The bottom line is both parties made a choice to have the sex and both parties are each 100% responsible (not 50/50) for the consequences.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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31-12-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
Are you people who vehemently support accidental pregnancy related child support also pro life (aka pro forced birth)? I hope so, because you make the exact same arguments.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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