Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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31-12-2013, 01:03 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:24 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Do those who advocate the abolishment of financial childsupport, propose any alternative that can keep parents from falling into poverty?

None of us are for the abolishment of it, but many of us want major reforms.
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31-12-2013, 01:03 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:01 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 12:52 PM)Impulse Wrote:  That's pretty simplistic. You're basically saying that, if the man wants to back out of his responsibility, the woman is faced with two choices: 1) take a medical risk (perhaps ruining her chances of ever having a child) and have an abortion despite that this might not be what she would choose if the man had shared the responsibility of having the child or 2) raise the child with half the money and only herself to do all the parental work. Not very good choices. And not choices she should have to make given that both parties, including the man, knew exactly the risks they were taking when they had sex.

Having the child and giving it up for adoption is another alternative, but not one that is in the best interest of the child. There is no guarantee that the child will be adopted and it risks the child spending his/her life in an orphanage or in foster homes. Neither of those are nearly as good as being brought up by parents.

No, they are not great choices.

Still, far better then having no fucking choice whatsoever, isn't it?
No choice? Consensual sex is a choice...

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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31-12-2013, 01:13 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:52 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Having the child and giving it up for adoption is another alternative, but not one that is in the best interest of the child. There is no guarantee that the child will be adopted and it risks the child spending his/her life in an orphanage or in foster homes. Neither of those are nearly as good as being brought up by parents.

I'm not sure what world you live in, but infants are highly desirable to be adopted. Because the parents have a huge role in rearing the early years of development. My former foster daughter came to us at age 7. Her view on the world was screwed up by her insane parents. They should have NEVER had children. There are, literally, thousands upon thousands of families who are either infertile or willing to adopt infants because of the fact that they want to ensure the child has a healthy upbringing.

There are some damn good foster families out there. We spent more money out of our own pockets so that she was able to participate in dance, girl scouts, whatever. Yes, some foster parents suck. Having foster parents that recognize where the child is coming from in order to help them through one of the most difficult times in their little lives (at no fault of their own) is needed and I welcome more caring, patient individuals to take up that role and help the children born to the idiots of of this world.
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31-12-2013, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 01:20 PM by Slowminded.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:03 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 01:01 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  No, they are not great choices.

Still, far better then having no fucking choice whatsoever, isn't it?
No choice? Consensual sex is a choice...

Ah, if you gonna include "consensual sex" to the list of choices, you should've done so when you listed her choices too.

But you didn't, did you ? If you are going to be honest about this, you have to admit that it's a bit late to bring that up?

Keep it in your pants/ keep your legs crossed arguments work both ways or not at all.

You don't get to say "he should've kept it in his pants" to him , without saying "she should've kept her legs crossed" to her.

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31-12-2013, 01:27 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:14 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 01:03 PM)Impulse Wrote:  No choice? Consensual sex is a choice...

Ah, if you gonna include "consensual sex" to the list of choices, you should've done so when you listed her choices too.

But you didn't, did you ? If you are going to be honest about this, you have to admit that it's a bit late to bring that up?
I did bring it up before. I mentioned in this post and this post. And I acknowledged that the woman has the same responsibility in this post.

(31-12-2013 01:14 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Keep it in your pants/ keep your legs crossed arguments work both ways or not at all.
That assumes all else is equal, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, it's not.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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31-12-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 12:52 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 10:57 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  And the answer is no. If a man decides he doesn't want the child and tells the woman when she still has time to abort, then no he should not have to pay child support. She would know exactly what she faces and be able to make an informed decision to have the baby and raise it alone with no help from him at all, have the baby and give it up for adoption, or have an abortion. The "child" would not suffer because presumably she would not choose the first option if she could not raise the baby on her own.
That's pretty simplistic. You're basically saying that, if the man wants to back out of his responsibility, the woman is faced with two choices: 1) take a medical risk (perhaps ruining her chances of ever having a child) and have an abortion despite that this might not be what she would choose if the man had shared the responsibility of having the child or 2) raise the child with half the money and only herself to do all the parental work. Not very good choices. And not choices she should have to make given that both parties, including the man, knew exactly the risks they were taking when they had sex.

Having the child and giving it up for adoption is another alternative, but not one that is in the best interest of the child. There is no guarantee that the child will be adopted and it risks the child spending his/her life in an orphanage or in foster homes. Neither of those are nearly as good as being brought up by parents.

There's no guarantee that a newborn baby will be adopted? What world do you live in?
Also, medical abortion is no more dangerous than a miscarriage.
Yes both parties knew the risk. She has an option to abort, so should he. If she wanted to have a family and raise a baby together she should have discussed this with him or found someone else who wanted that. I mean there has to be some level of personal responsibility. If he chooses to be a father he will be personally responsible for paying support (or raising the child himself if that is the agreement the come to). If she chooses to keep the baby knowing that the father will have no part in it then she will be personally responsible. It is not her only option.
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31-12-2013, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 01:43 PM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
So you're saying that basically if the "unwanted child" is born he/she should fend for himself/herself without any funding ? yeah let the child suffer because of its dumbass parents!

See buddy i'm all for birth control and sh!t... but if you bring a child to this world unwillingly or willingly its your damn fucking responsibility to raise it!
(29-12-2013 06:43 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  But she did also, yet she has a choice to abort but he doesn't?
Because she is one who's bearing the child for 9 or 10 months,if a women doesn't want to grow a human inside her body its her damn right to abort the baby.

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31-12-2013, 01:36 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:03 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 01:01 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  No, they are not great choices.

Still, far better then having no fucking choice whatsoever, isn't it?
No choice? Consensual sex is a choice...

Omg we are talking about after the sex. Pay attention. They obviously both chose to have consensual sex. So why is it that you think only the woman should have options after the sex? Why is the man's new future based on the woman's choices instead of his own?
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31-12-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 12:52 PM)Impulse Wrote:  That's pretty simplistic. You're basically saying that, if the man wants to back out of his responsibility, the woman is faced with two choices: 1) take a medical risk (perhaps ruining her chances of ever having a child) and have an abortion despite that this might not be what she would choose if the man had shared the responsibility of having the child or 2) raise the child with half the money and only herself to do all the parental work. Not very good choices. And not choices she should have to make given that both parties, including the man, knew exactly the risks they were taking when they had sex.

Having the child and giving it up for adoption is another alternative, but not one that is in the best interest of the child. There is no guarantee that the child will be adopted and it risks the child spending his/her life in an orphanage or in foster homes. Neither of those are nearly as good as being brought up by parents.

There's no guarantee that a newborn baby will be adopted? What world do you live in?
Um, the real one. Are you not aware of orphanages where kids don't get adopted or kids that go from one foster home to another?

(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Also, medical abortion is no more dangerous than a miscarriage.
Any invasive procedure is a medical risk. Medical abortion should be no more dangerous than a miscarriage, but it's always a risk. A man backing out of his responsibility shouldn't be the sole reason a woman opts for that. Furthermore, if she happens to believe abortion is murder, it may not even be an option for her at all.

(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Yes both parties knew the risk. She has an option to abort, so should he. If she wanted to have a family and raise a baby together she should have discussed this with him or found someone else who wanted that. I mean there has to be some level of personal responsibility. If he chooses to be a father he will be personally responsible for paying support (or raising the child himself if that is the agreement the come to). If she chooses to keep the baby knowing that the father will have no part in it then she will be personally responsible. It is not her only option.
I completely agree that, in an ideal world, the man and woman would have an in depth conversation about all of this before having sex. But we all know that doesn't happen much. Nonetheless, when they have sex anyway both parties are responsible for that decision and both parties are responsible for the consequences. The woman doesn't get to back out of her consequences. If she gets pregnant, she MUST abort, have the child and raise it, or have the child and give it up for adoption. She has no choice but to deal with it and all the ramifications of any of those choices.. If you allow the man to simply walk away because she chose not to abort and he didn't want the child, then he has NO consequences. You want things to REALLY be equal? Honestly? Then walking away is not a choice he should have. He too must have to deal with the consequences.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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31-12-2013, 01:45 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:36 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 01:03 PM)Impulse Wrote:  No choice? Consensual sex is a choice...

Omg we are talking about after the sex. Pay attention. They obviously both chose to have consensual sex. So why is it that you think only the woman should have options after the sex? Why is the man's new future based on the woman's choices instead of his own?
There is only an "after the sex" because of "before the sex". Pay attention. The rest I just answered.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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