Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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31-12-2013, 01:49 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:27 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 01:14 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Ah, if you gonna include "consensual sex" to the list of choices, you should've done so when you listed her choices too.

But you didn't, did you ? If you are going to be honest about this, you have to admit that it's a bit late to bring that up?
I did bring it up before. I mentioned in this post and this post. And I acknowledged that the woman has the same responsibility in this post.

(31-12-2013 01:14 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Keep it in your pants/ keep your legs crossed arguments work both ways or not at all.
That assumes all else is equal, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, it's not.

You only acknowledge that woman have the same responsibility pro forma but you never associate any real consequences to go with her "responsibilities" .

About what is equal or not. I would say that 18 years of paying child support is harder then both abortion or giving birth to a child. In most cases.

Not to mention the morning after pill, which isn't really that bad.

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31-12-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:43 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  There's no guarantee that a newborn baby will be adopted? What world do you live in?
Um, the real one. Are you not aware of orphanages where kids don't get adopted or kids that go from one foster home to another?
Key word "kids" not babies.

(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Also, medical abortion is no more dangerous than a miscarriage.
Any invasive procedure is a medical risk. Medical abortion should be no more dangerous than a miscarriage, but it's always a risk. A man backing out of his responsibility shouldn't be the sole reason a woman opts for that. Furthermore, if she happens to believe abortion is murder, it may not even be an option for her at all.
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Medical abortion is not an invasive procedure, you're thinking of surgical abortion. Also, if she thinks abortion is murder then she should not have one, but that has nothing to do with him or his beliefs or his decisions. If he doesn't want her to abort then he cannot stop her. So he should be allowed to opt out without her stopping him.

(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Yes both parties knew the risk. She has an option to abort, so should he. If she wanted to have a family and raise a baby together she should have discussed this with him or found someone else who wanted that. I mean there has to be some level of personal responsibility. If he chooses to be a father he will be personally responsible for paying support (or raising the child himself if that is the agreement the come to). If she chooses to keep the baby knowing that the father will have no part in it then she will be personally responsible. It is not her only option.
I completely agree that, in an ideal world, the man and woman would have an in depth conversation about all of this before having sex. But we all know that doesn't happen much. Nonetheless, when they have sex anyway both parties are responsible for that decision and both parties are responsible for the consequences. The woman doesn't get to back out of her consequences. If she gets pregnant, she MUST abort, have the child and raise it, or have the child and give it up for adoption. She has no choice but to deal with it and all the ramifications of any of those choices.. If you allow the man to simply walk away because she chose not to abort and he didn't want the child, then he has NO consequences. You want things to REALLY be equal? Honestly? Then walking away is not a choice he should have. He too must have to deal with the consequences.
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No I don't want things to be equal. Not in this circumstance, but I do believe that if a woman has the option to not become a parent regardless of what the man wants, then he should have that same option so long as he chooses it by 20 or 24 weeks of pregnancy or whenever the states abortion limit is.
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31-12-2013, 02:02 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  She has an option to abort, so should he. If she wanted to have a family and raise a baby together she should have discussed this with him or found someone else who wanted that. I mean there has to be some level of personal responsibility. If he chooses to be a father he will be personally responsible for paying support (or raising the child himself if that is the agreement the come to). If she chooses to keep the baby knowing that the father will have no part in it then she will be personally responsible. It is not her only option.
Yay! Thumbsup See the issue here is that the woman can choose whether or not to be a mother, but the man cannot choose whether or not to be a father. I like your thoughts!

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31-12-2013, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2013 02:33 PM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
Why isn't anyone talking about divorced couples and their children ??

Seriously this whole thread is a giant "Abortion thread" as if all the meat of child support argument is abortion Dodgy i mean wtf isn't this thread supposed to be about child support?

EDIT: And to top it all off i just don't see a logic in "I didn't want the baby therefore i don't want to pay for child support" WTF that's just childish and immature as fuck.

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31-12-2013, 02:38 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I mean there has to be some level of personal responsibility.
why dose it seem to me that only one gender has agency or responsibility
I mean he got her pregnant
if a women is a CEO its most likely a man got her there she cant get there her self because women have no agency.
and women never commit domestic violence I mean you need agency to beat the shit out of someone and women just don't have it
we cant conscript women that would be unfair that's to much responsibility
i could go on
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31-12-2013, 02:40 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 02:38 PM)Imdefender Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I mean there has to be some level of personal responsibility.
why dose it seem to me that only one gender has agency or responsibility
I mean he got her pregnant
if a women is a CEO its most likely a man got her there she cant get there her self because women have no agency.
and women never commit domestic violence I mean you need agency to beat the shit out of someone and women just don't have it
we cant conscript women that would be unfair that's to much responsibility

What the f...?!?
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31-12-2013, 02:41 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 02:24 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Why isn't anyone talking about divorced couples and their children ??

Seriously this whole thread is a giant "Abortion thread" as if all the meat of child support argument is abortion Dodgy i mean wtf isn't this thread supposed to be about child support?

EDIT: And to top it all off i just don't see a logic in "I didn't want the baby therefore i don't want to pay for child support" WTF that's just childish and immature as fuck.

Try actually reading the entire thread buddy -_-
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31-12-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 02:38 PM)Imdefender Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 01:32 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I mean there has to be some level of personal responsibility.
why dose it seem to me that only one gender has agency or responsibility
I mean he got her pregnant
if a women is a CEO its most likely a man got her there she cant get there her self because women have no agency.
and women never commit domestic violence I mean you need agency to beat the shit out of someone and women just don't have it
we cant conscript women that would be unfair that's to much responsibility
i could go on
No one is even going to debate you because you're a moron.
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31-12-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
This isn't about taking responsibility for having sex. This is about taking responsibility for choosing to give birth and/or choosing to be a parent.

If we want to talk about taking responsibility for having sex, then this will just turn into a pro-life analogy.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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31-12-2013, 02:49 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 02:24 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Why isn't anyone talking about divorced couples and their children ??

Seriously this whole thread is a giant "Abortion thread" as if all the meat of child support argument is abortion Dodgy i mean wtf isn't this thread supposed to be about child support?

EDIT: And to top it all off i just don't see a logic in "I didn't want the baby therefore i don't want to pay for child support" WTF that's just childish and immature as fuck.

It's a matter of balancing reproductive right for men compared to those of women.
Women have rights to decide to be a mother or not that trump the will of the father (that's why all the abortion talk) but men don't have any similar option except for preventive measures. That's the problem here, how can we give some choice to the man about whether he wants to be a father or not, without allowing him to force his will onto the woman. Child support just looks like a good place to start

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