Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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31-12-2013, 10:31 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 09:10 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 04:38 PM)Impulse Wrote:  And to say a man should be allowed to simply walk away because the abortion decision didn't go his way is just ludicrous. That puts the man above the baby - the innocent baby for which the man is just as responsible as the woman - and that's just wrong.

Let me help keep things honest once again...

And to say a woman should be allowed to simply abort the baby because *insert whatever reason except medical reasons* is just ludicrous. That puts the woman above the baby. The innocent baby...

You insist on having double standards. Unless you are pro life? Every point you make for child support is also a point for pro life option.

When the issue is child support then it's " innocent baby" , but when the issue is abortion then it's "her body, her life, her choice" then you forget about the "innocent baby".

If a woman is allowed to have an abortion, thus putting herself above the "innocent baby" , then a man should be allowed to walk away putting himself above the baby. No?

Also, take in consideration that an abortion means that the "innocent baby" simply doesn't get to be , but when man walks away, the child, depending on his mother's ability to provide or find another life partner can have a normal happy life, perhaps much better then if father didn't walk away.

You seem to assume that is impossible for a woman to provide only for herself and a child, when there are millions upon millions of cases where a man is the sole provider for himself, his wife and a child/children?

Don't get me wrong, I have already said my opinion several times, but your logic here has a slight flaw. Child support is for children. Living breathing viable children. Abortion is for fetuses. A fetus, by law, is not a baby. In my state, Ohio, you cannot have an abortion if the "baby" is viable (meaning it can survive outside the womb). Which brings me back to my opinion that if the father doesn't "abort" before the mother's abortion limit then he should be just as stuck as she is.
Now yes she has the option to give the baby up for adoption and he does not. Well I have done my best to even the playing field and that is as good as it gets in my opinion. He gets no option after 20-24 weeks gestation. It gets too confusing after that and trying to allow any more rights would get slippery and give us a law that cannot hold up in court.
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01-01-2014, 02:03 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
Damn. There's been so much activity in here that I doubt there's a point in adding anything. Tongue Oh well. I'll do it anyway.

(31-12-2013 10:43 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Yes, I agree, men need to have more rights, but not equal rights in this situation. Why? Because they are not equal circumstances. Call me a hypocrite all you want, but until a man can get pregnant then his rights have to be a little bit less than hers because she holds more responsibility and higher consequences. Yes pregnancy and abortion are both hard on a woman's body and can be very dangerous.

Exactly this. The tie goes to the runner; the woman is the one who is pregnant so she gets more say in the matter. It's not fair, but neither is life.

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01-01-2014, 06:46 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 10:31 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 09:10 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Let me help keep things honest once again...

And to say a woman should be allowed to simply abort the baby because *insert whatever reason except medical reasons* is just ludicrous. That puts the woman above the baby. The innocent baby...

You insist on having double standards. Unless you are pro life? Every point you make for child support is also a point for pro life option.

When the issue is child support then it's " innocent baby" , but when the issue is abortion then it's "her body, her life, her choice" then you forget about the "innocent baby".

If a woman is allowed to have an abortion, thus putting herself above the "innocent baby" , then a man should be allowed to walk away putting himself above the baby. No?

Also, take in consideration that an abortion means that the "innocent baby" simply doesn't get to be , but when man walks away, the child, depending on his mother's ability to provide or find another life partner can have a normal happy life, perhaps much better then if father didn't walk away.

You seem to assume that is impossible for a woman to provide only for herself and a child, when there are millions upon millions of cases where a man is the sole provider for himself, his wife and a child/children?

Don't get me wrong, I have already said my opinion several times, but your logic here has a slight flaw. Child support is for children. Living breathing viable children. Abortion is for fetuses. A fetus, by law, is not a baby. In my state, Ohio, you cannot have an abortion if the "baby" is viable (meaning it can survive outside the womb). Which brings me back to my opinion that if the father doesn't "abort" before the mother's abortion limit then he should be just as stuck as she is.
Now yes she has the option to give the baby up for adoption and he does not. Well I have done my best to even the playing field and that is as good as it gets in my opinion. He gets no option after 20-24 weeks gestation. It gets too confusing after that and trying to allow any more rights would get slippery and give us a law that cannot hold up in court.

I agree with you completely , my whole rant is to point out the double standards used here.
I am strictly talking about a period up to 20-24 weeks. More precisely, the moment when she discovers that she is pregnant and informs the biological father.

I'm talking about :

"Hi Joe, remember me? It's Jenny from from Jacky's party last month. You remember when we hooked up, and the condom broke? Well...I'm pregnant.
I'll keep the baby. What's your last name again? I need it to file the papers for child support. Hope you have a good job."

I am not talking about people in a relationship who brake up when she is 6 months pregnant.
I am not talking about married couple getting a divorce when child is 2 years old.

In cases like that , child support should be payed, for me there is no question about it.

Again, what I am saying is:

If a woman has that period of 20-24 weeks to make a decision if she wants to keep the baby or not, the father should have some time and a chance to decide if he wants to pay child support for next 18 years.

In fact, one week is enough. After he is informed of the pregnancy , he has one week to decide and to inform her of the decision.
Then she has the choice to keep the baby or to abort it.

Which are the same choices she had anyway.

The only option that has been taken off the table is:
"I'm keeping the baby , and you are paying for it for next 18 years against your will"

Neither abortion trauma or labor pains depend on child support.
She is not forced to have an abortion because there will be nobody to pay child support. She just need to take that info into her decision.

After that period it's settled. She has a baby, he pays child support.

I don't think that's too much to ask for.

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01-01-2014, 07:04 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
I don't see the mandatory issue here.

If a man doesn't want to pay child support, can't he simply do that by giving away his guardianship/parental rights?

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01-01-2014, 08:03 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(31-12-2013 09:10 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Every point you make for child support is also a point for pro life option.

What? Uh......... No.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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01-01-2014, 08:31 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 08:03 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 09:10 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Every point you make for child support is also a point for pro life option.

What? Uh......... No.
Thanks for taking that out of context.
I was talking about points Impulse made.
Just reverse the genders in his argument and you made it into pro life argument.

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01-01-2014, 08:33 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 08:31 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(01-01-2014 08:03 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  What? Uh......... No.
Thanks for taking that out of context.
I was talking about points Impulse made.
Just reverse the genders in his argument and you made it into pro life argument.

I will read it again. I must have misunderstood.
Thanks for catching that - k?

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01-01-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 08:33 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(01-01-2014 08:31 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Thanks for taking that out of context.
I was talking about points Impulse made.
Just reverse the genders in his argument and you made it into pro life argument.

I will read it again. I must have misunderstood.
Thanks for catching that - k?
K

Italic part of my post is word for word his argument only with genders changed.


This thread is ruining my otherwise good mood.

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01-01-2014, 10:17 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 06:46 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I am not talking about people in a relationship who brake up when she is 6 months pregnant.
I am not talking about married couple getting a divorce when child is 2 years old.

In cases like that , child support should be payed, for me there is no question about it.
The bolded part above may be the first thing in this thread from you that I've disagreed with. I don't see why casual sex should get better treatment than accidental pregnancies while in a relationship with somebody. I agree that those who are married probably shouldn't be able to take this option.

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01-01-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 10:17 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(01-01-2014 06:46 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  I am not talking about people in a relationship who brake up when she is 6 months pregnant.
I am not talking about married couple getting a divorce when child is 2 years old.

In cases like that , child support should be payed, for me there is no question about it.
The bolded part above may be the first thing in this thread from you that I've disagreed with. I don't see why casual sex should get better treatment than accidental pregnancies while in a relationship with somebody. I agree that those who are married probably shouldn't be able to take this option.

Because then the period when she can legally abort the baby has passed. She had expectations of commitment by him, and that affected her decision to keep the baby or not. He doesn't get to change his mind when it's too late for her to change hers.
She is left without the option to abort , so he is left without the option of not being financially responsible for the child.
The situation should be made as fair as possible for everybody.

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