Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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01-01-2014, 08:27 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 08:05 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Really, I'm about done with this discussion. It's just going in circles at this point.

I think so too. We can just agree to not agree and leave it at that. Thumbsup

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01-01-2014, 10:01 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 08:05 PM)Impulse Wrote:  No, it's not a matter of whether the woman can raise the child herself without difficulty. It's about the right thing to do in the man's case. The right thing is to stay with the woman and child and raise the child jointly. But if the scumbag can't even do that much, he can at least share the financial burden.

Really, I'm about done with this discussion. It's just going in circles at this point. To me, it's crystal clear that the man should be required to pay child support at the very least. He knew the risks when he had sex, the same as the woman did. The main difference is, if she gets pregnant, he can walk away and she can't, but that doesn't make it the right thing for him to do just because it's convenient. He doesn't get to desert the woman and he doesn't get to desert the child. But it appears that I'm not going to convince you so I don't see the point in continuing the circles.

I am perfectly fine with agreeing to disagree on the child support issue, really I am. But this, this disgusts me. Who are you to say what is right and what is wrong? Who are you to say that every "scumbag" who realizes they are not fit or ready to be a parent and chooses to walk away isn't doing the right thing? Not every person is the same. Not every situation is the same. But every baby needs someone who is fit to be a parent, who will love and not resent them. Sometimes "deserting" the woman and child is the greatest kindness a man can do and maybe someday when he is ready he will become a terrific father but that doesn't mean he is capable of doing so now. Not every man who walks away is a deadbeat, sometimes they're trying to do what is best for the baby.
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01-01-2014, 11:30 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 10:01 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Not every man who walks away is a deadbeat, sometimes they're trying to do what is best for the baby.
Sure they are ...Dodgy

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02-01-2014, 01:30 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 11:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(01-01-2014 10:01 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Not every man who walks away is a deadbeat, sometimes they're trying to do what is best for the baby.
Sure they are ...Dodgy

So I guess you think that women who give their babies up for adoption are scumbags too right? You know since they're deserting their baby and leaving them in the hands of someone who claims to be capable of caring for them.

Your stance is unreasonable and completely sexist, but yea sure okay.
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02-01-2014, 02:16 AM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2014 02:30 AM by Adrianime.)
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(01-01-2014 08:05 PM)Impulse Wrote:  No, it's not a matter of whether the woman can raise the child herself without difficulty. It's about the right thing to do in the man's case.
Right thing? You are the author of this objective morality you speak of? It's fine to have your point of view, but making your point of view the rule for others is pretty overbearing, no?

Quote:The right thing is to stay with the woman and child and raise the child jointly.
As a victim of a domestic abuse home, no that is not always the right thing to do. Eff subjecting a child to a parent that doesn't know how, or doesn't want to be a parent.

Quote:But if the scumbag can't even do that much, he can at least share the financial burden.
Scumbag because he doesn't follow your idea of what "the right thing" for men to do is?

Quote:Really, I'm about done with this discussion. It's just going in circles at this point. To me, it's crystal clear that the man should be required to pay child support at the very least.
Great, the beauty of us being different people is that we can have different views and values.

Quote: He knew the risks when he had sex, the same as the woman did. The main difference is, if she gets pregnant, he can walk away and she can't
She can't? Morning after pill, abortion?

Quote:but that doesn't make it the right thing for him to do just because it's convenient. He doesn't get to desert the woman and he doesn't get to desert the child.
Looks to me like, "The moment that accident happened, he lost control of his own life, and potentially his own happiness. His life is now at the mercy of the woman's choice. Retirement? Disposable income? Future family plans? No, he doesn't get any of that. His life happiness is no longer important."

Quote:But it appears that I'm not going to convince you so I don't see the point in continuing the circles.
Yep

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02-01-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(02-01-2014 01:30 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(01-01-2014 11:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Sure they are ...Dodgy

So I guess you think that women who give their babies up for adoption are scumbags too right? You know since they're deserting their baby and leaving them in the hands of someone who claims to be capable of caring for them.
Giving a baby up for adoption is not walking away. It's dealing with the situation via one of the alternatives.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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02-01-2014, 09:09 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
For crying out loud, people!

If you are going to have sex, make sure there is protection and fucking ASK the question before you even get that far.

"IF you get pregnant, will you want to keep the child or abort?" Have the freaking conversation.

Your genes are half of that kid, and your responsibility is half. PERIOD!!!! The kid cannot be made to suffer for your negligence. This is all about the kid, YOUR kid!

You know that babies come from having sex, right?

Glad I don't have a horse in that race anymore. Confused

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02-01-2014, 09:16 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(02-01-2014 02:16 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(01-01-2014 08:05 PM)Impulse Wrote:  No, it's not a matter of whether the woman can raise the child herself without difficulty. It's about the right thing to do in the man's case.
Right thing? You are the author of this objective morality you speak of? It's fine to have your point of view, but making your point of view the rule for others is pretty overbearing, no?
Sometimes that's appropriate. Is it overbearing to say murder is wrong for everyone? Consider

(02-01-2014 02:16 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
Quote:The right thing is to stay with the woman and child and raise the child jointly.
As a victim of a domestic abuse home, no that is not always the right thing to do. Eff subjecting a child to a parent that doesn't know how, or doesn't want to be a parent.
You're missing the point. Staying with the woman and child and beating up the woman and/or child is not the right thing either. Obviously, I meant doing the entire right thing. Yes, if the man is going to be abusive, the child (and woman) are better off if he leaves, but that doesn't mean he did the right thing by leaving. It means it was the lesser of the evils and he's still a scumbag. The right thing was to accept the situation, treat the woman and child respectfully as human beings, and support them both.

(02-01-2014 02:16 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
Quote:But if the scumbag can't even do that much, he can at least share the financial burden.
Scumbag because he doesn't follow your idea of what "the right thing" for men to do is?
Scumbag because he can't take responsibility for his actions and dumps the consequences on the woman and child.

(02-01-2014 02:16 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
Quote:Really, I'm about done with this discussion. It's just going in circles at this point. To me, it's crystal clear that the man should be required to pay child support at the very least.
Great, the beauty of us being different people is that we can have different views and values.
This I agree with. Thumbsup

(02-01-2014 02:16 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
Quote: He knew the risks when he had sex, the same as the woman did. The main difference is, if she gets pregnant, he can walk away and she can't
She can't? Morning after pill, abortion?
Those are manners of dealing with the pregnancy and not walking away because, as I stated, she can't walk away.

(02-01-2014 02:16 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
Quote:but that doesn't make it the right thing for him to do just because it's convenient. He doesn't get to desert the woman and he doesn't get to desert the child.
Looks to me like, "The moment that accident happened, he lost control of his own life, and potentially his own happiness. His life is now at the mercy of the woman's choice. Retirement? Disposable income? Future family plans? No, he doesn't get any of that. His life happiness is no longer important."
He should have considered that when he took the risk of getting the woman pregnant and, if he did consider it, he should have taken it very seriously - meaning having a willingness to accept the consequences even if it meant raising a child that he really wasn't hoping for; or else not having the sex.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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02-01-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(02-01-2014 09:09 AM)Dom Wrote:  For crying out loud, people!

If you are going to have sex, make sure there is protection and fucking ASK the question before you even get that far.

"IF you get pregnant, will you want to keep the child or abort?" Have the freaking conversation.

Your genes are half of that kid, and your responsibility is half. PERIOD!!!! The kid cannot be made to suffer for your negligence. This is all about the kid, YOUR kid!

You know that babies come from having sex, right?

Glad I don't have a horse in that race anymore. Confused

Yes
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02-01-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(02-01-2014 02:16 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Looks to me like, "The moment that accident happened, he lost control of his own life, and potentially his own happiness.

Damn right. Both the parents did.

Now the CHILD has the rights. You made it, it's half yours. You are responsible for the life of a human being.

I absolutely HATE when parents bicker around at the expense of a human being THEY CREATED.

You knew babies result from sex. Deal with it. Sex is not an accident, it's a decision. Stop thinking with your penis or vagina, you are better than that. And if you are not, if you can't deal with your own impulses, then bear the freaking consequences and provide the child YOU put on this earth with a decent start in life.

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