Should Child Support Be Abolished?
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29-12-2013, 08:07 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
I don't think the argument between the two of you is particularly relevant. O.o
Abortion was somewhat relevant when talking about double standards.
Being pro-life is not relevant at all.

Moving right along...
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29-12-2013, 08:09 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 08:07 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I don't think the argument between the two of you is particularly relevant. O.o
Abortion was somewhat relevant when talking about double standards.
Being pro-life is not relevant at all.

Moving right along...
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It's not really relevant, our argument. Really if it's a big deal they can just ignore me or wait for a mod to split it, half of the threads on these forums derail anyway. There's no point in bitching about such a small thing.

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29-12-2013, 08:18 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 08:06 PM)Question Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 08:04 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  None of the posts you copied is about pro choice or pro life, all of them are about double standards applied.

Abortion pertains to pro life or pro choice, regardless. They're related for a reason.

Yeah, except nobody in this thread is questioning women's right to make the choice.
The question is should men be forced to bear the consequences of the choice they had no part in making.

You are making it sound like if men are not forced pay child support , women are somehow forced to have an abortion.
No, keep the baby if you want it. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. It is your (women's) choice.

But, please, let me have my choice too.

Why should men be prisoners of your decisions?

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29-12-2013, 08:25 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 08:18 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 08:06 PM)Question Wrote:  Abortion pertains to pro life or pro choice, regardless. They're related for a reason.

Yeah, except nobody in this thread is questioning women's right to make the choice.
The question is should men be forced to bear the consequences of the choice they had no part in making.

You are making it sound like if men are not forced pay child support , women are somehow forced to have an abortion.
No, keep the baby if you want it. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. It is your (women's) choice.

But, please, let me have my choice too.

Why should men be prisoners of your decisions?
You're right, no one did bring it up. It came up in my postings when I posted my opinions and made a sarcastic response into a comment, and it became a more detailed discussion. If that upsets you I guess you just gotta suck it up? I mean really, not a big deal.
Quote:
You are making it sound like if men are not forced pay child support , women are somehow forced to have an abortion.

I already addressed this, actually.
Quote: Unfortunately it isn't a two way street, until he can hold and procure a uterus, physically forcing her to have or withhold the child is a greater concern.
If men were the ones to birth offspring, it'd be the same. The woman could not force or withhold the process from him. If the two parties cannot find a common ground and agreement, I'm sorry but the one that'd be at risk to die from birthing and /who's body is at stake should have the final say.
more zoomed in, in case it's not clear
Quote: force or withhold
abortion or no abortion
that's what it means.
Quote:But, please, let me have my choice too.

Why should men be prisoners of your decisions?

Already addressed this too, actually.

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Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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29-12-2013, 08:27 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 08:18 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 08:06 PM)Question Wrote:  Abortion pertains to pro life or pro choice, regardless. They're related for a reason.

Yeah, except nobody in this thread is questioning women's right to make the choice.
The question is should men be forced to bear the consequences of the choice they had no part in making.

You are making it sound like if men are not forced pay child support , women are somehow forced to have an abortion.
No, keep the baby if you want it. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. It is your (women's) choice.

But, please, let me have my choice too.

Why should men be prisoners of your decisions?

If the man follows a legal process to opt. out of responsibility for the child and the mother is informed that he would have no obligations to support either the child or her if she chooses to deliver than I am fine with that.

(29-12-2013 07:40 PM)Crulax Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 07:20 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Ok so here is my opinion. As long as the pregnancy is not a result of rape or incest, a man should have until 24 weeks (or whatever is the abortion limit the woman is held to) to file with the court that he chooses to "abort" the baby. If the baby is not actually aborted he has absolutely no claim to the child and is allowed no contact, nor is he expected to pay child support. Once the limit is past there is no going back if she keeps the baby he pays child support unless he can legally prove that she didn't tell him about the pregnancy until it was too late.

I can agree to this!

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29-12-2013, 08:28 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
If the man doesn't want to pay child support, then he can sign his rights away. If he doesn't want to pay for a kid he created then he clearly doesn't want the child and/or doesn't care about it enough to support it.
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29-12-2013, 08:29 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
Extreme hypothetical: What if, after learning the woman is pregnant, the man goes to the woman and says "We're in this together. If we allow this child to be born both of us will have to drop out of college to support it, and it will ruin both of our futures. So I will accept responsibility and pay for the abortion, please, let's not let this ruin our lives". And the woman says "screw you, it may ruin YOUR life since you'll be on the hook to pay child support and will have to drop out of college to work full-time and support the kid. But it won't screw up my life because my mom said she'll help raise the baby, so I can stay in college, get my degree and start my career."

Q: In such a situation, should the man have the right to go to the court and say "I accept responsibility for what I've done, and I've agreed to pay for an abortion because I simply can't afford to support this child. Please absolve me of child support responsibilities if the woman decides to keep the baby?"
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29-12-2013, 08:29 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 08:27 PM)Crulax Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 08:18 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Yeah, except nobody in this thread is questioning women's right to make the choice.
The question is should men be forced to bear the consequences of the choice they had no part in making.

You are making it sound like if men are not forced pay child support , women are somehow forced to have an abortion.
No, keep the baby if you want it. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. It is your (women's) choice.

But, please, let me have my choice too.

Why should men be prisoners of your decisions?

If the man follows a legal process to opt. out of responsibility for the child and the mother is informed that he would have no obligations to support either the child or her if she chooses to deliver than I am fine with that.

(29-12-2013 07:40 PM)Crulax Wrote:  I can agree to this!
Does something like that already exist? I imagine there would be since some parents don't want the SO to be involved at all with the child. Or am I thinking of something else?

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Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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29-12-2013, 08:32 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 08:29 PM)Question Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 08:27 PM)Crulax Wrote:  If the man follows a legal process to opt. out of responsibility for the child and the mother is informed that he would have no obligations to support either the child or her if she chooses to deliver than I am fine with that.
Does something like that already exist? I imagine there would be since some parents don't want the SO to be involved at all with the child. Or am I thinking of something else?

As of right now I don't believe there is.

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29-12-2013, 08:32 PM
RE: Should Child Support Be Abolished?
(29-12-2013 08:29 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Extreme hypothetical: What if, after learning the woman is pregnant, the man goes to the woman and says "We're in this together. If we allow this child to be born both of us will have to drop out of college to support it, and it will ruin both of our futures. So I will accept responsibility and pay for the abortion, please, let's not let this ruin our lives". And the woman says "screw you, it may ruin YOUR life since you'll be on the hook to pay child support and will have to drop out of college to work full-time and support the kid. But it won't screw up my life because my mom said she'll help raise the baby, so I can stay in college, get my degree and start my career."

Q: In such a situation, should the man have the right to go to the court and say "I accept responsibility for what I've done, and I've agreed to pay for an abortion because I simply can't afford to support this child. Please absolve me of child support responsibilities if the woman decides to keep the baby?"

Yes. As long as he does so before the baby is born.
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