Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
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26-09-2012, 09:01 AM
Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDNHM84lBA0

These lies were and are given to insure social harmony in an uneducated and gullible population. Our Governments lie and allow liars to lie to us of the supernatural, fantasy and magic.

Governments learned a long ago that religions were a good tool to use for social manipulation and control. Governments allowed and encouraged belief in fantasy, miracles and magic, the opium of the masses, and have lived with the drugged up population and religions.

Governments, with this noble lie, have maintained the current idiocy of immoral teachings within religions and have caused much unjust discrimination and denigration of innocent populations of Gays, women and many others, for just doing what we now see as moral.

Do you think we have matured enough as a people that we can now rescind the laws that protect religions and gives them a tax haven and legitimacy?

Are we intelligent enough to not need these lies anymore?

Can the population take our real reality or is the Government just going to let the flim-flam con game of religions to continue to damage the mental capabilities of the citizens in our country?

Flim-flam and con artists are subject to the law of the land. --- except for religions.

Can the population of take the truth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QXOgVfY...r_embedded


Regards
DL
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26-09-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
Simple answer: No.

That's a slippery slope. Give the government the ability to abrogate our right to religion, and the next thing they'll want is our right to freedom of speech, or our right to bear arms, or our right to a fair trial with a jury of our peers.

Getting government involved won't work.

Besides, then you'll just create "underground" religions where the faithful will congregate in secret. Then what? Arrest them? Arrest everyone who wants to perpetuate their delusions?

Now, if all you're suggesting is to tax religions like every other business, then I say go for it. I'd vote for that. I think our government needs all the tax dollars it can get so they can misspend, overspend, and and throw away more of our money - but that's a discussion for a different thread. Religions, in my opinion, are just businesses and should be taxed like any other business.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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26-09-2012, 11:43 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2012 01:13 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
(26-09-2012 09:01 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDNHM84lBA0

These lies were and are given to insure social harmony in an uneducated and gullible population. Our Governments lie and allow liars to lie to us of the supernatural, fantasy and magic.

Governments learned a long ago that religions were a good tool to use for social manipulation and control. Governments allowed and encouraged belief in fantasy, miracles and magic, the opium of the masses, and have lived with the drugged up population and religions.

Governments, with this noble lie, have maintained the current idiocy of immoral teachings within religions and have caused much unjust discrimination and denigration of innocent populations of Gays, women and many others, for just doing what we now see as moral.

Do you think we have matured enough as a people that we can now rescind the laws that protect religions and gives them a tax haven and legitimacy?

Are we intelligent enough to not need these lies anymore?

Can the population take our real reality or is the Government just going to let the flim-flam con game of religions to continue to damage the mental capabilities of the citizens in our country?

Flim-flam and con artists are subject to the law of the land. --- except for religions.

Can the population of take the truth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QXOgVfY...r_embedded


Regards
DL

One of your assumptions is unfounded. The "lies", may be seen by some to be "lies", but your presumption of bad faith is not established, empirically. Most people who hold beliefs, actually, hold the beliefs, in good faith. SOME, may use religion in bad faith.

Religious ideas were not "given" to cultures. Religion comes "from" culture, and reflects it. Religion sanctions already extant cultural norms. They may, at times, resist changes from the old norms, but the original norms, (for example, Biblical laws), came form culture, not the other way around.

Maybe, the Noble lie should be exposed for what it is, by citizens, and governments would have to fall in line.
Also thanks for posting the Noble Lie video. It's really great. Dr. Cutsinger makes, towards the end, the SAME point I'm always harping on, about linguistic consistency,
(when religion asserts god "acts", but "exists" in a timeless "dimension").

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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26-09-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
Seeing as how you've been posting this all over the net Ill give you the same response I gave on another forum. I mean damn you didn't even change your icon.

I'm sorry but your dead wrong here. As long as government and religion are kept separate as per the first amendment religious and non religious people alike should be free to do as they please so long as they remain free from harming others or themselves.

As for churches being tax free that's a legitimate debate. So long as they write off most of the charity work they do however you'll find that most churches wouldn't pay tax anyway.

The priests and the ministers however should most definitely find their salary taxed. The amount and type of write offs they get here in Canada is a bit stupid to say the least.
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27-09-2012, 06:04 AM
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
(26-09-2012 11:30 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Simple answer: No.

That's a slippery slope. Give the government the ability to abrogate our right to religion, and the next thing they'll want is our right to freedom of speech, or our right to bear arms, or our right to a fair trial with a jury of our peers.

Getting government involved won't work.

Besides, then you'll just create "underground" religions where the faithful will congregate in secret. Then what? Arrest them? Arrest everyone who wants to perpetuate their delusions?

Now, if all you're suggesting is to tax religions like every other business, then I say go for it. I'd vote for that. I think our government needs all the tax dollars it can get so they can misspend, overspend, and and throw away more of our money - but that's a discussion for a different thread. Religions, in my opinion, are just businesses and should be taxed like any other business.

Rescinding the Noble Lie is not outlawing religion.

It is just the government admitting that they do not criticize religions and their delusional thinking because it is a good tool for babysitting adults and basically keep them as bright as bricks.

You have talked to believers. You should know what I mean.

I agree with your last.

Regards
DL
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27-09-2012, 06:20 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2012 06:23 AM by Greatest I am.)
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?

One of your assumptions is unfounded. The "lies", may be seen by some to be "lies", but your presumption of bad faith is not established, empirically. Most people who hold beliefs, actually, hold the beliefs, in good faith. SOME, may use religion in bad faith.

Religious ideas were not "given" to cultures. Religion comes "from" culture, and reflects it. Religion sanctions already extant cultural norms. They may, at times, resist changes from the old norms, but the original norms, (for example, Biblical laws), came form culture, not the other way around.

Maybe, the Noble lie should be exposed for what it is, by citizens, and governments would have to fall in line.
Also thanks for posting the Noble Lie video. It's really great. Dr. Cutsinger makes, towards the end, the SAME point I'm always harping on, about linguistic consistency,
(when religion asserts god "acts", but "exists" in a timeless "dimension").
[/quote]

B B

Thanks for this.

No argument for most but my morals say that we should be led by truth and not lies. If the goal of educating people to lead themselves, which is what all regimes are to do, then truth is paramount. You do not give healthy people a crutch.

The good or bad faith you want depends on truth as faith without facts is for fools.

Regards
DL
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27-09-2012, 06:27 AM
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
(26-09-2012 01:16 PM)Godless Wrote:  Seeing as how you've been posting this all over the net Ill give you the same response I gave on another forum. I mean damn you didn't even change your icon.

I'm sorry but your dead wrong here. As long as government and religion are kept separate as per the first amendment religious and non religious people alike should be free to do as they please so long as they remain free from harming others or themselves.

As for churches being tax free that's a legitimate debate. So long as they write off most of the charity work they do however you'll find that most churches wouldn't pay tax anyway.

The priests and the ministers however should most definitely find their salary taxed. The amount and type of write offs they get here in Canada is a bit stupid to say the least.

Harm should be the first consideration for sure.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists as well as those who do not believe. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief or not. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic are evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUC...playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXri...re=related

Jesus Camp 1of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBv8tv62yGM

Promoting death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BV...re=related

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL
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27-09-2012, 08:00 AM
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
You are many forms of special you know that? What with this triple posting and stuff. Use the edit button.

Trying to take away religion from people is a foolish endeavor that will cause nothing but more more suffering. There will be blood if something like that were to happen and that's the last thing we need. What we need is for people to see the lies for themselves, for them to make their own decisions. Trying to control religion makes us no better than the worst of them. Fool.

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27-09-2012, 02:06 PM
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
Has a nice ring to it doesn't it?

But you want politicians to say "er sorry folks, it was all a lie to control you. As you were." ???

A. All true believers will immediately rage.

B. There is NOOOOOO point B.

C. Everyone seems to think you wanna make religion illegal or some shit but I don't catch that from your posts. Still, bad idea if anyone was advocating it.
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27-09-2012, 08:06 PM
RE: Should Governments rescind the noble lie of religions?
Police people on their actions, not their beliefs - lest your beliefs be policed.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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