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Should Sanders back out?
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09-06-2016, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 09-06-2016 03:14 PM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: Should Sanders back out?
I couldn't care less about him "hurting the party," Bernie and his supporters are under absolutely zero obligation to assist Queen Hillary on her quest for power. But I do care about him helping Trump. I'm a liberal, but have been disappointed in the Democratic Party, at least at the national level, pretty much my entire adult life. But what can I do? The Republicans are in WAY too close with the bible thumpers for my taste. I don't even hate Hillary, and if pressed I might have to begrudgingly admit she might actually be better at doing the job of President than Bernie would be. I had hoped to be able to cast a vote FOR Bernie, the only candidate in this election of any principle and character, but if the best I can do is check the box next to Hillary's name in order to vote AGAINST Trump, I'll do my duty as a grown-up. I'll eat my metaphorical broccoli.
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09-06-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(09-06-2016 02:36 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 02:22 PM)skyking Wrote:  quoted for utter nonsense. Putting any information on a private email server like hotmail is giving it away completely. Once you use hotmail, gmail it is out of your control.
Hotmail is not a private e-mail server, neither is gmail. They're corporately owned servers whose owners adhere to strict security standards (Look up ISO/IEC 27000).

(09-06-2016 02:22 PM)skyking Wrote:  her staff's intention on having it on their own server was so it would be secure
That's the most ludicrous thing I've heard all day. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The top secret information (the highest possible classification category, by the way) that was found on her server originated from a government server system that is completely shut off from the Internet. It was very secure there. Not so much on Clinton's private server, which was subject to repeated hacking attempts due to its connection to the Internet.


An aside -- Top Secret really isn't the highest security category. (In the US)

It's the highest conventional clearance.

There is stuff that is higher - that must be granted on a case by case basis.

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09-06-2016, 03:17 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(09-06-2016 03:07 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 02:45 PM)skyking Wrote:  And those same corporate servers get hacked. They can and do get hacked from within.
Saying Clinton's server was less secure is speculation. Both cases are servers facing the net.
Government mail does not belong in either place, regardless but saying it was less of an offense on corporate servers is incorrect.
No, it's not speculation. The corporate servers in question were tested and certified by industry experts according to the ISO security standards I mentioned earlier. The same cannot be said of Clinton's private e-mail server. In fact, the State Department didn't even know about its existence and according to the IG report, even if she had followed proper procedure and asked for permission to build it first, she wouldn't have been allowed to do it. Are you still going to spout that ridiculous falsehood about her staff doing this because they wanted the e-mails to be secure?

What her predecessors did was, in fact, a less severe offense. Not one of them had their staff remove top secret information from the JWICS network and distributed it via e-mail.
Neither case is better than the other as you asserted in your first post. Both are using non-government servers for official business. Both examples are equally in the wrong. I am not defending Hillary's actions at all.
That's my opinion of course, but it is based on building and managing web-facing servers for many years. keeping them patched, up to date, using state of the art IDS systems.
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09-06-2016, 03:20 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(09-06-2016 03:08 PM)morondog Wrote:  Any successful?
The romanian hacker Guccifer who was recently extradited to the US claims that he hacked her server successfully.

(09-06-2016 03:08 PM)morondog Wrote:  You seem to paint her as having made every technical decision in this - if her staff were involved she probably just said "I want access to my emails and I want it now". It's not like she's some computer whiz who suddenly decides to implement her own security protocol. Someone advised her. She probably wasn't even aware it was a risk until this shit blew up in her face.
Ah, so you think she's simply grossly incompetent? Any and every government employee at that level (and below) receives extensive training on how to handle classified information. Heck, even if I received a few security courses on how to handle sensitive information at my company. Sorry man, but ignorance is not an excuse in this case. It is completely illegal to remove top secret information from the JWICS and put it on your own server at home. An intern at the FBI would know basic stuff like that.

(09-06-2016 03:17 PM)skyking Wrote:  Neither case is better than the other as you asserted in your first post. Both are using non-government servers for official business. Both examples are equally in the wrong. I am not defending Hillary's actions at all.
That's my opinion of course, but it is based on building and managing web-facing servers for many years. keeping them patched, up to date, using state of the art IDS systems.
You can't just repeat the same assertion and expect it to become any more valid. As I've pointed out before, her predecessors did not remove top secret information from the JWICS and distributed it via e-mail. That is objectively worse than distributing regular classified information via e-mail.

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09-06-2016, 03:22 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(09-06-2016 03:20 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 03:08 PM)morondog Wrote:  Any successful?
The romanian hacker Guccifer who was recently extradited to the US claims that he hacked her server successfully.

(09-06-2016 03:08 PM)morondog Wrote:  You seem to paint her as having made every technical decision in this - if her staff were involved she probably just said "I want access to my emails and I want it now". It's not like she's some computer whiz who suddenly decides to implement her own security protocol. Someone advised her. She probably wasn't even aware it was a risk until this shit blew up in her face.
Ah, so you think she's simply grossly incompetent? Any and every government employee at that level (and below) receives extensive training on how to handle classified information. Heck, even if I received a few security courses on how to handle sensitive information at my company. Sorry man, but ignorance is not an excuse in this case. It is completely illegal to remove top secret information from the JWICS and put it on your own server at home. An intern at the FBI would know basic stuff like that.

Rolleyes Jesus Vos, I guess maybe German 20 somethings should go give them security training then.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-06-2016, 03:24 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(09-06-2016 03:22 PM)morondog Wrote:  Rolleyes Jesus Vos, I guess maybe German 20 somethings should go give them security training then.

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09-06-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
I like hearing the opinions of the "Sanders should stay" crowd. It offers perspective I hadn't considered.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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09-06-2016, 03:38 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(09-06-2016 03:20 PM)Vosur Wrote:  ...As I've pointed out before, her predecessors did not remove top secret information from the JWICS and *distributed* it via e-mail. That is objectively worse than distributing regular classified information via e-mail.

*distribute

Sorry, I don't get too many chances to correct the chief Grammar Nazi.

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09-06-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(09-06-2016 03:20 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 03:08 PM)morondog Wrote:  Any successful?
The romanian hacker Guccifer who was recently extradited to the US claims that he hacked her server successfully.

(09-06-2016 03:08 PM)morondog Wrote:  You seem to paint her as having made every technical decision in this - if her staff were involved she probably just said "I want access to my emails and I want it now". It's not like she's some computer whiz who suddenly decides to implement her own security protocol. Someone advised her. She probably wasn't even aware it was a risk until this shit blew up in her face.
Ah, so you think she's simply grossly incompetent? Any and every government employee at that level (and below) receives extensive training on how to handle classified information. Heck, even if I received a few security courses on how to handle sensitive information at my company. Sorry man, but ignorance is not an excuse in this case. It is completely illegal to remove top secret information from the JWICS and put it on your own server at home. An intern at the FBI would know basic stuff like that.

(09-06-2016 03:17 PM)skyking Wrote:  Neither case is better than the other as you asserted in your first post. Both are using non-government servers for official business. Both examples are equally in the wrong. I am not defending Hillary's actions at all.
That's my opinion of course, but it is based on building and managing web-facing servers for many years. keeping them patched, up to date, using state of the art IDS systems.
You can't just repeat the same assertion and expect it to become any more valid. As I've pointed out before, her predecessors did not remove top secret information from the JWICS and distributed it via e-mail. That is objectively worse than distributing regular classified information via e-mail.

"As I pointed out before"... all you did was say it. Just blankly assert it.. yet you blast others saying "You can't just repeat the same assertion and expect it to become any more valid."

Someone apart of a situation and seen in a class layer of commonplace is much more LESS likely to get heavier advanced modern technological security training than corporate or newer entries members to fields in this era.

And things are entirely bickered in some position of superiority from your part.

Fine I guess you can go onto the argument of if something is possibly at any level objectively better or not if you want to. Have some good fun. And no, even with server thoughts about the consequences of what could happen with loose protocols, the shift of comparison isn't all out more dreadful or punishing worthy.

And if "bernie' stays in or not has no fucking difference to what anything if Hilary is criminally punished for previous actions, the DNC won't be in some different situation if he stays, suspended, or ceased his campaign anyway. It's irrelevant due to the party system you must pass x threshold to be the official nominee element so they vote on and choose other candidates in the light.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-06-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
Based on what I learned researching Vosur's statements, Sanders SHOULD stay. I think she will get a pass on it though.
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