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Should Sanders back out?
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10-06-2016, 04:09 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(10-06-2016 12:19 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Also who is elizabeth warren?

A sign of the times, Big Z. You know your shit's fucked up when Democratic bigwigs and pundits float the name of a first time junior senator from Massa - no where - tuky into yer presidential politics.

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10-06-2016, 05:23 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
I changed my mind, Yes he should drop out and join Hillary to support the party. Third party sounds good but it's not a reality here at this time. Right now my concern is the selection of one and possibly two SCOTUS, which are long term investments in our future with much more power in our lives. Lefties unite! Big Grin

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10-06-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(10-06-2016 02:20 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 11:52 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The time to vote third party is after the electoral system has been fixed. So long as we retain a first-past-the-post system with winner takes all, strategic voting and a two party system is the inevitable outcome. If we had a preferential voting system, then voting third, fourth, fifth, or even sixth party would be viable; because even if your favorite didn't get the win, your vote would be counted for your second, third, fourth, or fifth choice depending on elimination. But until that happens, strategic voting is the most effective voting. I'd prefer Elizabeth Warren was running, but I'm not getting that. However I can vote to stop Trump from picking the next few candidates for the Supreme Court (with ramifications for decades to come), and so I will vote Hillary if it comes to that.
So long as the polity holds this view, nothing at all will change. There's no reason at all to hope that the two parties sitting in power will open up the process.

In this case, change can only come from below, at the level of the voter.

Good luck convincing enough of them to actually do anything about it. The vast majority know the system is broken, but how many of them know and or care enough to actually do something about it? They already don't care enough to vote.

The great double edged sword of freedom is the right to remain ignorant.


(10-06-2016 02:20 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Unfortunately, most Americans cast their vote as if they're betting on a horse; they take pride in voting for the winner. If more Americans voted their conscience, a multiparty system would evolve naturally.

Doesn't work that way, because our system doesn't favor it, and people at least know that much. What if everyone did vote for whoever they wanted, with the winner being the one with the most votes? If for example there were 6 serious candidates, all sharing about equal support, no matter who the winner is they will be representing only a minority of voters. After a few elections, people catch on that their candidate or party isn't winning elections, and will start to vote for those who appear to be able to win; creating a feedback loop that will destroy all of the lesser parties. This whittles down the field, with the inevitable outcome being two diametrically opposed parties left standing as most people vote based on who they want to keep out of office more so than for who they actually want in.


(10-06-2016 02:20 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Also, get rid of the Electoral College. There's no such thing as "one man, one vote" when delegates elected by slim majorities vote en banc.

Agreed.

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10-06-2016, 06:38 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(09-06-2016 10:24 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 10:23 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Well that is probably happening early next week. They are giving him what he wanted Progressive planks on the party platform.

Then I have lost all respects for him being able to be bought buy such a person.

He's not being bought. He realizes that without him Trump might win, and he is going to fight that.

Sometimes one has to roll with the punches.

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10-06-2016, 06:53 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
Quote:There are plenty things wonky and worse with the Stein green party platform unless you're just some bought in to it. Their angles of being alongside the anti-science fields of all naturalistic ideals in some sense are just as harmful as when others support that notion.

Are you talking about her anti-GMO stance? If you are, I agree that's a problem with her platform but otherwise she's so aligned with my beliefs she's many times better than Gary Johnson who would be my second choice.

The main thing is our insanely bloated military budget and out hyper-interventionalist foreign policy is destroying our country and that those funds and that manpower must be invested in green energy.

We have the get off fossil fuels BEFORE they run out. It is by far the issue of our time and she has the best plan to get us there. Sorry if I sound like a "convert"- I admit I am. She's what we need.
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10-06-2016, 07:40 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(10-06-2016 02:41 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 02:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  But there is exactly no evidence that his claim has any merit.
Would you expect there to be evidence at this point in time? I mean, it's not like the FBI just releases evidence that could be used for possible future prosecutions to the public while their investigations are still on-going.

The allegation is worthless and mentioning it is a disingenuous rhetorical tactic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-06-2016, 07:43 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(10-06-2016 06:05 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 02:20 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Also, get rid of the Electoral College. There's no such thing as "one man, one vote" when delegates elected by slim majorities vote en banc.

Agreed.

Don't agree. That issue is not due to the fact of the Electoral College but of the rules of some states for the delegates' votes.

Not every state is 'all or nothing', some are proportional.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-06-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(10-06-2016 06:38 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 10:24 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Then I have lost all respects for him being able to be bought buy such a person.

He's not being bought. He realizes that without him Trump might win, and he is going to fight that.

Sometimes one has to roll with the punches.

By working with someone who is just as bad.

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10-06-2016, 07:54 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(10-06-2016 02:23 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 12:19 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  I would rather die than go against what I stand for.

Really? Seems a bit extreme. What about going against what you stand for just a little bit? Or what about not dying but standing for it anyway?

When it comes to hillary no.

For an idea of it





http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital...ntil-after

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-17...ranscripts

She is my second most hated modern politician.

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10-06-2016, 08:01 AM
RE: Should Sanders back out?
(10-06-2016 07:54 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(10-06-2016 02:23 AM)morondog Wrote:  Really? Seems a bit extreme. What about going against what you stand for just a little bit? Or what about not dying but standing for it anyway?

When it comes to hillary no.

For an idea of it





http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital...ntil-after

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-17...ranscripts

She is my second most hated modern politician.

I'll send the assassins shortly.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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