Should men be forced to pay child support?
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22-08-2014, 03:09 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(22-08-2014 02:15 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You could say the same for abortion be illegal.

You could, it's not the same argument. Most of us here would agree that a woman has a right to do with her body what she wants. Many of the arguments you claim to be anti abortion arguments simply aren't, as they're arguments for men taking responsibility for what happens once they've done their bit.

Telling a man to take responsibility for what he has already done and telling a woman she has no right to control her body are widely different stances.

It seems some men really lose their shit at the idea of women having more power than them in a situation.

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22-08-2014, 03:28 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 05:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I don't see any solution to this that does not encroach on one party or the other.

I don't think it's possible to have a solution which is equal because biologically speaking the act of procreation is unequal.

Men produce the sperm.
Women have the eggs and the babies.

Recognising this it becomes a question of priority.

Do we prioritise men's choice?
Do we prioritise a women's choice and right over her own body?
Do we prioritise the needs of the child who was the only who could not give consent?


I personally don't think that men's choice should trump a women's choice about what happens to her body.

If you agree with then it becomes a question of how well children should be looked after. Is it better for society for children to be raised by single mothers who can spend more time raising the children because they don't have to prioritise bringing in an income?

Will society be better off if children are given the chance to fully exploit their potential?

If so then should tax payer's money be spent on supporting single mother's or should the father be obliged to pay as well considering that the child is a consequence of their decision?

That's not to say that there aren't other creative solutions to the problem, but given the way modern western society is currently set up with a focus on perpetual economic growth, it's understandable why policy makers have made the decisions that they have.
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22-08-2014, 03:37 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2014 03:49 AM by ClydeLee.)
Re: RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 10:52 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 10:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  The option suggested is the option to opt-out of responsibility. Not having options is not good. Having that option is not great either.
Unless you are a woman, right? Consider

Quote:There is no perfectly equal solution here, because biology ain't equal.
I'm curious, if babies developed in a detached egg sack rather than inside a woman, would you view this topic differently?

Of course.. How could anyone reasonably not view it differently?

If we achieve a technological status were there's nearly no harm to the woman or fetus to be removed and grown outside the woman extremely early on in the pregnancy, the scenarios will be altered.

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22-08-2014, 03:45 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(22-08-2014 03:09 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 02:15 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You could say the same for abortion be illegal.

You could, it's not the same argument. Most of us here would agree that a woman has a right to do with her body what she wants. Many of the arguments you claim to be anti abortion arguments simply aren't, as they're arguments for men taking responsibility for what happens once they've done their bit.

Telling a man to take responsibility for what he has already done and telling a woman she has no right to control her body are widely different stances.

It seems some men really lose their shit at the idea of women having more power than them in a situation.

I disagree almost entirely, with the proviso that there is no way to balance this situation. One party will always be put out, but a bad argument on one side does not become compelling on the other.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-08-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 12:40 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 11:57 AM)One Above All Wrote:  Not overlooked, but put into perspective. What's the percentage of women (mothers) that pay child support when compared to the percentage of men (fathers) who do the same?

That'll be because the one who is not rearing the kid has to pay, has nothing to do with gender except for the fact that usually the women get stuck raising the kid.

I am outta this thread, it aggravates me.

I do not think "stuck" is the right term. There are lots of dads out there that would love to raise their kids, but the courts are slanted to giving the mom custody and make the dad pay no matter how capable the dad is at raising his kids. It sucks to be a man in family court. It is a total up hill battle for your stuff, your kids and your dignity. My brother divorced his cheating wife and got hosed. I know many good men that got taken to the cleaners.
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22-08-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
I Think men should have a say as o whether or not they wish to be involved. Far too many babies are born into unwelcoming circumstances.
The REAL issue is that the fetus grows inside a woman and she could go weeks without knowing or without saying....essentially binding the man after abortion option has passed.

Bottom line... men unless you want possible complications always wear a condom. Unless it's a gal you'd make babies with keep it under wraps.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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22-08-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 10:52 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 10:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  The option suggested is the option to opt-out of responsibility. Not having options is not good. Having that option is not great either.
Unless you are a woman, right? Consider

No. Don't strawman.

(21-08-2014 10:52 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
Quote:There is no perfectly equal solution here, because biology ain't equal.
I'm curious, if babies developed in a detached egg sack rather than inside a woman, would you view this topic differently?

Yes. Er, no shit?

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22-08-2014, 09:14 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
I am of the opinion that a man should be able to "opt out" But I gotta say its a really lousy scumbag who would know he has a child out there and not want to at least make sure it was taken care of properly, even if he didn't want to be the dad. (I wouldnt want someone like that around my kid anyway. Lol)

Though I probably shouldnt have slept with the guy if he was such a scumbag....Man this is a rough discussion. I'm glad I didnt have to worry this.
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22-08-2014, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2014 09:35 AM by WeAreTheCosmos.)
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
Its like two part epoxy. Guy has one part, gal has the other... They mix em together, and its easy to get into a bind.
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22-08-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(22-08-2014 09:14 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I am of the opinion that a man should be able to "opt out" But I gotta say its a really lousy scumbag who would know he has a child out there and not want to at least make sure it was taken care of properly, even if he didn't want to be the dad. (I wouldnt want someone like that around my kid anyway. Lol)

Though I probably shouldnt have slept with the guy if he was such a scumbag....Man this is a rough discussion. I'm glad I didnt have to worry this.

Both men & women have acted horribly over the years where babies are concerned ; women trying to trap men, men being irresponsible when they helped create babe same as the female. Great opportunity to be shitty really.
What's pathetic is not thinking what's best for the child.

I've had 3 live births, 3 miscarriages, and 3 abortions.
The abortions were because it would have been a bad life for the child.
All pregnancies or ending of such -was with man in agreement with the decision.
Its really not that hard to use common sense.
And be respectful to your ppartner or the future of a child....aka what can I really offer here?

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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