Should men be forced to pay child support?
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21-08-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 10:58 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  I don't think anybody is arguing that a father should be allowed to stop paying child support after a divorce or break-up with the mother that happened after the child was born.

The argument (or at least my argument) is that before the child is born, when there is a decision to be made in early pregnancy (can we afford this child? Do I want this child? Do you want this child?) there ought to be an equal opportunity to opt out. As things stand there is not really an equal opportunity to opt out. Women can opt out via abortion, while men have no options. As such women hold all the cards on if the child gets born (which is fine). Fathers just have to shut up and live with her choice (financially). What I don't consider fine is that her independently made choice will impact the man financially for ~18 years. She gets an opportunity to opt out, so should he. The costs of raising a child should be deeply considered before you have one. If you can't afford it, don't do it, or at the very least, don't complain about not having money when having the kid was your own choice.

Almost every argument I hear against my position would be considered sexist if it were turned around and used against a woman in the case of abortion.

Thats exactly my point too. Thank you!
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21-08-2014, 11:42 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 11:06 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 10:58 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  I don't think anybody is arguing that a father should be allowed to stop paying child support after a divorce or break-up with the mother that happened after the child was born.

The argument (or at least my argument) is that before the child is born, when there is a decision to be made in early pregnancy (can we afford this child? Do I want this child? Do you want this child?) there ought to be an equal opportunity to opt out. As things stand there is not really an equal opportunity to opt out. Women can opt out via abortion, while men have no options. As such women hold all the cards on if the child gets born (which is fine). Fathers just have to shut up and live with her choice (financially). What I don't consider fine is that her independently made choice will impact the man financially for ~18 years. She gets an opportunity to opt out, so should he. The costs of raising a child should be deeply considered before you have one. If you can't afford it, don't do it, or at the very least, don't complain about not having money when having the kid was your own choice.

Almost every argument I hear against my position would be considered sexist if it were turned around and used against a woman in the case of abortion.

There can never be an "equal opportunity to opt out". A man deciding to back out of a pregnancy he caused doesn't actually stop it from happening. It's fundamentally dissimilar to abortion in that respect.

One cannot avoid responsibility by changing one's mind after the fact. We don't accept that reasoning in any other aspect of law.
I'm not talking about biologically walking away from physically having a child. I'm talking about socially/financially/emotionally walking away from parenthood. The woman has both choices. The man has neither (although one choice is impossible to grant, obviously).

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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21-08-2014, 11:48 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
I know a couple women that pay child support. Consider

In my state, and my former state, whoever is the noncustodial parent pays child support.

In my current state, people can sign away their parental rights after the baby is born and up to I believe it's around 18-24 months and never have to pay a dime.

Best thing a friend's daughter ever did.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-08-2014, 11:50 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
For those who are too stupid to practice birth control in this day and age, there are consequences.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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21-08-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 11:48 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I know a couple women that pay child support. Consider

In my state, and my former state, whoever is the noncustodial parent pays child support.

In my current state, people can sign away their parental rights after the baby is born and up to I believe it's around 18-24 months and never have to pay a dime.

Best thing a friend's daughter ever did.
That's pretty cool. If I recall correctly, when we last talked about this, this "signing away their parental rights" required approval from both parents, correct?

And yup, women can also pay child support. That is definitely something that should not be overlooked.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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21-08-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 11:53 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  And yup, women can also pay child support. That is definitely something that should not be overlooked.

Not overlooked, but put into perspective. What's the percentage of women (mothers) that pay child support when compared to the percentage of men (fathers) who do the same?

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21-08-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 10:39 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 07:44 AM)Antonis Wrote:  thanks for the advice but i am 17 Smile

Yeah so ?

what does that have to do with anything? Blink

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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21-08-2014, 12:30 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 10:58 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  I don't think anybody is arguing that a father should be allowed to stop paying child support after a divorce or break-up with the mother that happened after the child was born.

The argument (or at least my argument) is that before the child is born, when there is a decision to be made in early pregnancy (can we afford this child? Do I want this child? Do you want this child?) there ought to be an equal opportunity to opt out. As things stand there is not really an equal opportunity to opt out. Women can opt out via abortion, while men have no options. As such women hold all the cards on if the child gets born (which is fine). Fathers just have to shut up and live with her choice (financially). What I don't consider fine is that her independently made choice will impact the man financially for ~18 years. She gets an opportunity to opt out, so should he. The costs of raising a child should be deeply considered before you have one. If you can't afford it, don't do it, or at the very least, don't complain about not having money when having the kid was your own choice.

Almost every argument I hear against my position would be considered sexist if it were turned around and used against a woman in the case of abortion.

You bring up some good points, but that is the way the present is wrapped I guess...the court systems are heavily sided with the women in most cases, you could have her on video beating the kids and they will give her full custody anyway, and send her to parenting classes...she could be screwing half the neighborhood (or in my case, half the base while I was deployed) and they don't care, she gets everything, the kids, the car and 1/3 of your money. It makes it a tricky shitty situation for those that are men in the dating scene, a consensual hookup becomes a life changing situation if she becomes pregnant. It is easy to say well then you should have thought about that when you were having sex, but young men and women aren't thinking about that in the moment, although obviously they should be. I truly do understand your perspective, but that isn't the way it plays out in society or in the courts.....from the "put the child first" perspective, I get that it doesnt matter what she did, or how many, or what you want...it is her body, she must carry that child to term, and raise it, with or without you...and it does suck that you can be paying for that child for 18+ years whether you are in its life or not, whether she remarries 4 times or not....but such is life.

I will have paid in today's dollars a total of over $480k in child support by the time it is all done......that stings a bit....but my kids are worth every penny and I regret nothing.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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21-08-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 11:57 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 11:53 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  And yup, women can also pay child support. That is definitely something that should not be overlooked.

Not overlooked, but put into perspective. What's the percentage of women (mothers) that pay child support when compared to the percentage of men (fathers) who do the same?

That'll be because the one who is not rearing the kid has to pay, has nothing to do with gender except for the fact that usually the women get stuck raising the kid.

I am outta this thread, it aggravates me.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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21-08-2014, 12:47 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 12:40 PM)Dom Wrote:  That'll be because the one who is not rearing the kid has to pay, has nothing to do with gender except for the fact that usually the women get stuck raising the kid.

Good point. Perspective achieved.

(21-08-2014 12:40 PM)Dom Wrote:  I am outta this thread, it aggravates me.

Hope that wasn't my doing. Don't try to ascertain my opinion from the questions I ask on these matters. I'm usually not trying to make a point; I'm trying to learn and/or get you to think. In this case, I was going for "getting you to think", but ended up learning (or being reminded of) something. This is why I try to get the full picture before stating my opinion.

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Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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