Should men be forced to pay child support?
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21-08-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
Gotta admit, on the topic of custody laws, if I ever have kids and lose custody of them based on my gender, I'll hit the roof. It does really piss me off that women get such preferential treatment in those cases usually.

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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-08-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
I agreed to help her build a zygote! She's the one who made it into a baby!
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21-08-2014, 01:40 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
There are a lot of assumptions out there about single parents -- and particularly single moms. For example, there are people who believe that "most" single moms choose to raise their kids solo, are unemployed, and receive government assistance. While every family's story is different, most don't support these assumptions. When you examine U.S. Census data, the actual single parent statistics may surprise you. Let's take a look...

Single Parents By the Numbers

According to Custodial Mothers and Fathers and Their Child Support: 2009, a report released by the U.S. Census Bureau every two years (and most recently in December 2011), there are approximately 13.7 million single parents in the United States today, and those parents are responsible for raising 22 million children. This number represents approximately 26% of children under 21 in the U.S. today.


Despite negative assumptions that most single moms "selfishly" chose to raise their kids solo, the majority of individuals raising children alone started out in committed relationships and never expected to be single parents. Here's a picture of the "typical" single parent, according to the U.S. Census Bureau:

She's a Single Mother

The presumption that most single parents are mothers is accurate. According to the Census data:

Approximately 82.2% of custodial parents are mothers, and
17.8% of custodial parents (approximately 1 in 6) are fathers

She is Divorced or Separated

The assumption that "most" single mothers are were single from the outset is false. Of the mothers who are custodial parents:

44.2% are currently divorced or separated
36.8% have never been married
18% are married (In most cases, these numbers represent women who have remarried.)
1.1% were widowed
Of the fathers who are custodial parents:
53.5% are divorced or separated
24.7% have never married1

She is Employed

Another assumption about single moms is that most are unemployed. Again, that notion is not true according to the Census data.


76% of custodial single mothers are gainfully employed (53.2% work full time, year round and 22.8% work part-time or part-year)
85.1% of custodial single fathers are gainfully employed2

She and Her Children Do Not Live in Poverty

One single parent family in poverty is one too many, but according to the U.S. Census data, poverty isn't the norm for most single parent families. However, custodial single mothers and their children are twice as likely to live in poverty as the general population. According to the Census:

In 2009 14.3% of the total U.S. population lived in poverty
30.4% of custodial single mothers and their children lived in poverty
18.8% of custodial single fathers and their children lived in poverty

She Does Not Receive Public Assistance

Another assumption about single moms is that "most" receive government assistance. According to the actual data:

In 2009, 41.3% of custodial mothers received some form of government assistance
32.3% received SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) benefits
6.8% of custodial single moms received TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families)
20.9% of custodial fathers received some form of government assistance

She is 40 Years Old or Older

Another assumption about single moms is that "most" are young. According to the actual data:

37.2% of custodial single mothers are 40 years old or older

She is Raising One Child

Finally, another assumption about single moms is that "most" are raising multiple children. In reality:

57.2% of custodial mothers are raising one child from the absent parent
44.1% have two or more children living with them
While these numbers give a snapshot, they don't tell the real story about what it means to be a single parent. For every story you hear about a single mom or dad abusing government benefits or living up to some other negative stereotype, remember that those behaviors don't reflect the reality most single parent families face. If you want to know more, ignore the stereotypes altogether and get to know the single mom who lives next door or whose children attend the same school as your own kids. First-hand experience is the best way to buck these widely held stereotypes and build a community of support in their place!


Article above stolen quoted from
http://singleparents.about.com/od/legali...rtrait.htm


I also found this paper by US.gov Census on single parents, custody, etc

http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-240.pdf


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21-08-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 12:30 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  You bring up some good points, but that is the way the present is wrapped I guess...the court systems are heavily sided with the women in most cases, you could have her on video beating the kids and they will give her full custody anyway, and send her to parenting classes...she could be screwing half the neighborhood (or in my case, half the base while I was deployed) and they don't care, she gets everything, the kids, the car and 1/3 of your money. It makes it a tricky shitty situation for those that are men in the dating scene, a consensual hookup becomes a life changing situation if she becomes pregnant. It is easy to say well then you should have thought about that when you were having sex, but young men and women aren't thinking about that in the moment, although obviously they should be. I truly do understand your perspective, but that isn't the way it plays out in society or in the courts.....from the "put the child first" perspective, I get that it doesnt matter what she did, or how many, or what you want...it is her body, she must carry that child to term, and raise it, with or without you...and it does suck that you can be paying for that child for 18+ years whether you are in its life or not, whether she remarries 4 times or not....but such is life.

I will have paid in today's dollars a total of over $480k in child support by the time it is all done......that stings a bit....but my kids are worth every penny and I regret nothing.
Yup, it certainly is not the way our society works, and I understand that. I don't expect what I propose to ever be considered as law.

And as far as paying child support goes. I think that's great. If you are going to be a father, then be a father. I have nothing against paying child support to the children you intentionally brought into this world (or the unintentional ones who you decide are wanted).

All I am against is forced parenthood. In this day and age, with the options available, I don't think anybody, male or female, should be forced into being a parent against their will. Although I think once you have made your choice to be a parent to a specific child, you enter the realm of "there is no turning back" (with exceptions).

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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21-08-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 07:13 AM)Antonis Wrote:  If a woman don't want the child and the man wants it she can get an abortion despite the mans wishes, but if the reverse thing happens he can't force her to get an abortion, and thats fine its her own body she can do what she wants, but the man then shouldn't be forced to pay child support for a kid he didn't want.
When two people freely choose to have sex, they know the risks. They may or may not opt for protection but, either way, if a baby is born, they are both responsible for the well-being of that baby. If both aren't willing to accept that responsibility beforehand, then they shouldn't have sex. That's the reality that allows the responsibility to later be enforced regardless of the actual ethical conduct of either party. The man who says he doesn't want the responsibility doesn't get to be excused from his responsibility just because he wants to walk away from it.

Now some will say that the woman refusing abortion when the man wanted that option relieves him of the responsibility, but no it doesn't. The woman is the one carrying the unborn baby. It's her body and she has the right to make the final decision about the abortion. Sure the man has the right to give his input, but the final choice is the woman's. The man should have discussed all this with the woman before having sex so he should know how she feels about abortion before the sex. He should also know that a woman may change her mind when an actual pregnancy may change things. If he doesn't know these things, it's his own fault for engaging in sex without finding out. Yes, the reality is, that happens a lot, but the point is the man has nothing solid to stand on if he allowed himself to get into the situation and then regrets it.

Bottom line. Both parties do or should know all the ramifications of having sex as far as the pregnancy risks and the resulting responsibilities go. I feel sorry for no one who simply wants to take the easy way out once things aren't really so easy anymore.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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21-08-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 11:53 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 11:48 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I know a couple women that pay child support. Consider

In my state, and my former state, whoever is the noncustodial parent pays child support.

In my current state, people can sign away their parental rights after the baby is born and up to I believe it's around 18-24 months and never have to pay a dime.

Best thing a friend's daughter ever did.
That's pretty cool. If I recall correctly, when we last talked about this, this "signing away their parental rights" required approval from both parents, correct?

And yup, women can also pay child support. That is definitely something that should not be overlooked.

Yes, both parents must agree and there's no take backs. My friend's daughter was very lucky.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-08-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 02:08 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  All I am against is forced parenthood. In this day and age, with the options available, I don't think anybody, male or female, should be forced into being a parent against their will. Although I think once you have made your choice to be a parent to a specific child, you enter the realm of "there is no turning back" (with exceptions).
The only "forced parenthood" that comes to mind would be from raping a woman that doesn't believe in abortion. If you are saying that a man who wants the woman to have an abortion is forced into parenthood by a woman who doesn't want an abortion and a legal system that says he still retains responsibility, I strongly disagree. He wasn't forced to have sex so he wasn't forced into parenthood. By having sex, exactly this situation was part of the known risk and he chose to accept that risk.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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21-08-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 02:59 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 02:08 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  All I am against is forced parenthood. In this day and age, with the options available, I don't think anybody, male or female, should be forced into being a parent against their will. Although I think once you have made your choice to be a parent to a specific child, you enter the realm of "there is no turning back" (with exceptions).
The only "forced parenthood" that comes to mind would be from raping a woman that doesn't believe in abortion. If you are saying that a man who wants the woman to have an abortion is forced into parenthood by a woman who doesn't want an abortion and a legal system that says he still retains responsibility, I strongly disagree. He wasn't forced to have sex so he wasn't forced into parenthood. By having sex, exactly this situation was part of the known risk and he chose to accept that risk.
I disagree. And I might as well point out that a woman can rape a man pretty easily (drugs, ropes). Ejaculation is not exactly under our full control.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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21-08-2014, 03:15 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2014 03:21 PM by Drunkin Druid.)
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 07:13 AM)Antonis Wrote:  If a woman don't want the child and the man wants it she can get an abortion despite the mans wishes, but if the reverse thing happens he can't force her to get an abortion, and thats fine its her own body she can do what she wants, but the man then shouldn't be forced to pay child support for a kid he didn't want.

Well, he should have bagged it. Or gotten a vasectomy. Or not fucked her. It can be pretty easy to not have a child you don't want.
But.... I suppose in some circumstances there could be an argument here.
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21-08-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 03:13 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I disagree. And I might as well point out that a woman can rape a man pretty easily (drugs, ropes). Ejaculation is not exactly under our full control.

If that's part of your argument, then I'm afraid you don't have a very good argument.

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