Should men be forced to pay child support?
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21-08-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 03:13 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I disagree. And I might as well point out that a woman can rape a man pretty easily (drugs, ropes). Ejaculation is not exactly under our full control.

If that's part of your argument, then I'm afraid you don't have a very good argument.
Haha, it isn't part of my argument, just pointing out that bringing up rape doesn't prove any point at all. (on this topic)

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21-08-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 03:13 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I disagree. And I might as well point out that a woman can rape a man pretty easily (drugs, ropes). Ejaculation is not exactly under our full control.
What are you disagreeing with? A man being raped was not part of anything I was talking about, so that's not it. And level of ejaculation control is all part of what the man chose when he chose to have sex.

Regarding a man being raped, that doesn't involve his consent to the sex so it's a different subject. It's related and an interesting tangent worth bringing up, but just not what was being discussed.

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21-08-2014, 04:04 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 02:59 PM)Impulse Wrote:  He wasn't forced to have sex so he wasn't forced into parenthood.
Specifically what I disagree with is saying that consenting to sex is consenting to parenthood. Just as I don't think a woman who chooses to have sex should be forced to have a child if she does not feel she wants to be a parent.

No matter how safe you have sex there is almost always a risk of pregnancy involved. Such an accident should not change the rest of either a man or a woman's life without their approval.

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21-08-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 04:04 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  No matter how safe you have sex there is almost always a risk of pregnancy involved. Such an accident should not change the rest of either a man or a woman's life without their approval.

Sorry, but sex isn't potentially without consequences. If you're grown up enough to have sex you're grown up enough to accept responsibility for what happens.

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21-08-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 04:31 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 04:04 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  No matter how safe you have sex there is almost always a risk of pregnancy involved. Such an accident should not change the rest of either a man or a woman's life without their approval.

Sorry, but sex isn't potentially without consequences. If you're grown up enough to have sex you're grown up enough to accept responsibility for what happens.

So you are against abortion then? Cause if that is not a valid argument in that case why is it one in this?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-08-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 04:32 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So you are against abortion then? Cause if that is not a valid argument in that case why is it one in this?

No, I'm in favour of allowing abortion because I believe women have a right to do what they want with their bodies.

But I also don't think women should have to bear all the responsibilities themselves.

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21-08-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 05:01 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 04:32 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So you are against abortion then? Cause if that is not a valid argument in that case why is it one in this?

No, I'm in favour of allowing abortion because I believe women have a right to do what they want with their bodies.

But I also don't think women should have to bear all the responsibilities themselves.

I don't see any solution to this that does not encroach on one party or the other. However to pretend that the encroachment is not happening is disingenuous at best.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-08-2014, 05:09 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 05:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I don't see any solution to this that does not encroach on one party or the other. However to pretend that the encroachment is not happening is disingenuous at best.

Yes, you can argue that men don't get much of a say once they've made the decision to have sex. I'm comfortable with that.

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21-08-2014, 07:15 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
(21-08-2014 04:04 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 02:59 PM)Impulse Wrote:  He wasn't forced to have sex so he wasn't forced into parenthood.
Specifically what I disagree with is saying that consenting to sex is consenting to parenthood. Just as I don't think a woman who chooses to have sex should be forced to have a child if she does not feel she wants to be a parent.
When both parties choose to have sex, they accept whatever the consequences might be. For the man, one of those consequences is that the woman gets to choose what to do with her body. That choice, whatever it is, does not relieve him of his responsibility in her having to make that choice or in the creation of a child if that is how it ends up.

(21-08-2014 04:04 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  No matter how safe you have sex there is almost always a risk of pregnancy involved. Such an accident should not change the rest of either a man or a woman's life without their approval.
In another context: No matter how safe the gambling may seem, there is almost always a risk of losing a lot of money. Such a loss should not change the rest of the gambler's life without the gambler's approval. (It shouldn't? Consider )

Assuming a big loss of money, the gambler's life is changed - loss of house, family, savings, or whatever - and it's not likely to be what the gambler expects or wants. Does that matter? Nope. The change of life happens anyway because the gambler assumed that risk by deciding to gamble. You can't voluntarily take a risk and then decide later you don't like the outcome. Too late and too bad.

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21-08-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: Should men be forced to pay child support?
Impulse, if we lived in an age where there were no condoms, day after pills, birth control, or abortion, then maybe your gambling analogy would be applicable.

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