Should only taxpayers be allowed to vote?
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22-02-2013, 05:44 AM
Re: RE: Should only taxpayers be allowed to vote?
(22-02-2013 05:32 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  "Not the same by any means does not mean something could not be both; It
means they are two distinct concepts, and Any way you read the terms,
they are different. The point was your using of one to support the other
despite then not being interchangeable."


You keep telling me it's so but you can't seem to tell me how. That it is doesn't advance your argument. How it is does.

"Like it or not, by being a citizen, even just on birth, that principal is pushed upon your life."

What principle? Being born into servitude is not a principle. It's slavery. And again, you're telling me that it is so and not how it is so. And with all due respect, I'm not so stupid as to not know what's been foisted upon me.

What no one seems to be able to do is square this moral circle that says some people can steal but others can't. I get the argument from effect wherein some people think the state is benevolent and that it does good with its ill gotten booty but, I'm not interested in arguments from effect. I can justify stealing my neighbor's groceries with an argument from effect.

I explained the how it's so of the first part in the post you asked... If you ask what part isn't clarified then I could try again.

I didn't care for the how at this juncture since this topic is far off base as I stated prior. If you knew this was the concept already... The use of faulty metaphors seems pointless. And I'm still looking for any person I could find who thinks government is benevolent.

It would be slavery if you weren't capable of leaving the system. Which is essentially the same as how you can say it's not a monopoly.

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
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22-02-2013, 06:09 AM
RE: Should only taxpayers be allowed to vote?
I asked you to explain your statement syllogistically, and you have yet to do so. You offered some criticism that mine was faulty because I missed the point that I was a monopoly... which is puzzling.

"
It would be slavery if you weren't capable of leaving the system. Which
is essentially the same as how you can say it's not a monopoly."

First off... sure I can leave. Just fill out the mountains of paperwork, pay the excessive fees and wait around for some bureaucrat to decide whether or not I'm allowed to leave. And then, if I'm allowed to leave, I still owe them a part of my income.... forever.

How can you say it's not a monopoly if I can not buy services from a competitor? Do you think that being uprooted from your home is somehow fair trade? Hell, Sirus and XM satellite radio companies were tied up with the SEC dicking about with their merger request for so long that both companies damn near went out of fucking business. Why? For fear that they would have a monopoly on satellite radio. Something so trivial as satellite radio is a monopoly and you're telling me that I have to uproot my family, close my business, beg the state for some papers, beg another state for some papers and then move just so I can choose a different fucking water company?

Think about that for a moment. And then, if you don't mind, explain to me how that's a just and moral way to treat human beings. And, how that's not a monopoly.
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22-02-2013, 06:54 AM
RE: Should only taxpayers be allowed to vote?
(im from the UK but its basically the same)

Cool, every four years I get the opportunity to flex my individual power by choosing to vote for one of two political parties. I could vote for another party but its pretty doubtful that they will get into power... so I settle for one of the two main "players"

No matter which one of the two are in power they simply blame the other for all of the past woes, there is no accountability really for past mistakes, just mud slinging and name calling.

So I stand in the voting booth deciding which one to choose, then I think "Am I actually in a properly educated position to fully choose and know the consequences of what my vote will bring? Or am I just going off information and promises that the party has offered me?"

So I put a x in the box and walk out with my head held high as a free individual. Of course my vote decides who we go to war with in that four year timespan, it decides foreign policys, it also decides where my taxes should go.... right?

Well if I dont like it I live in a free country and can protest cant I... I have that right. So I go and protest but I have to give notice of my protest to the authorities if the group will be over a certain size, well its the best way because we wouldnt want our peaceful protest turning violent right?

Ahhhhh but then there is my local politician/representative who I can go and talk to and put my worries across to. After all I did vote them in. Thumbsup

Even though I dont actually like violence and I wouldnt like to witness somebody being murdered or hurt I SUPPORT THE TROOPS!!!!!!!!! Caus you know they do a fucking amazing job in protecting us from all of those marauding terrorists around the world. They are HEROS and all those vets that say that they feel that the goverment doesnt support them and they have to rely on charity... well there just full of shit arent they Rolleyes

Its a good job I live in this society though, my ancestors fought tooth and nail to get the rights that I have today and I am grateful to them. Sadly these rights will have to be restricted over the next few years and beyond because of the whole economic crisis going off. I dont fully understand the reasoning behind what caused the crash and how its being handled now... but my government are doing the best they can and money has to be spent on the defense budget. Somebody told me that people profit from the arms industry and that is one of the reasons why they go to war, caus those bullets aint gonna fire themselves, that trillion dollar industry NEEDS war... I dont believe them, fucking conspiracy theorists.... it goes against everything I was bought up to believe, I have faith but im not religious.

Im "free"

You're never going to say the things you want to say.
The things you want to change will usually stay that way
The promises you break outweigh the ones you keep.
Paint upon the wall for the hundredth time.

Jesus Jones
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22-02-2013, 10:59 PM
Re: RE: Should only taxpayers be allowed to vote?
(22-02-2013 06:09 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  I asked you to explain your statement syllogistically, and you have yet to do so. You offered some criticism that mine was faulty because I missed the point that I was a monopoly... which is puzzling.

"
It would be slavery if you weren't capable of leaving the system. Which
is essentially the same as how you can say it's not a monopoly."

First off... sure I can leave. Just fill out the mountains of paperwork, pay the excessive fees and wait around for some bureaucrat to decide whether or not I'm allowed to leave. And then, if I'm allowed to leave, I still owe them a part of my income.... forever.

How can you say it's not a monopoly if I can not buy services from a competitor? Do you think that being uprooted from your home is somehow fair trade? Hell, Sirus and XM satellite radio companies were tied up with the SEC dicking about with their merger request for so long that both companies damn near went out of fucking business. Why? For fear that they would have a monopoly on satellite radio. Something so trivial as satellite radio is a monopoly and you're telling me that I have to uproot my family, close my business, beg the state for some papers, beg another state for some papers and then move just so I can choose a different fucking water company?

Think about that for a moment. And then, if you don't mind, explain to me how that's a just and moral way to treat human beings. And, how that's not a monopoly.

You've said to you, the government doesn't give you services... I think you can get no services anywhere you chose to go on the planet. But in regards to actual commodities, you can join the government exempt systems. Free seas area comminuted still exist in dangerous locales, native territories have areas exempt from gov control and people can be accepted in(I know of it happening in Canada at least) and the commune plans may soon come.

You're interested in something I could care less about in this discussion.. how, why, and what's moral.(I care about them, but this context makes it meaningless to me because it will go nowhere)

When your complaint goes to... I have to uproot, fill out work, etc. that's about being just or nitpicking details. who cares, the point being made is upon the possibility of actions not what the details would be.

I don't think it's just or moral, and I never claimed it was or that a system could to be.

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
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