Should private schools receive state funded buses?
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17-08-2012, 05:29 AM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
Rather then the state relying on private schools because it lacks public schools, I would say it lacks public schools because it relies on private schools.
ie: The public schools could handle it if private schools weren't there. Because the state would be forced to provide adequate funding.

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17-08-2012, 06:35 AM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
Seems like the private schools are unhappy with the bus schedules. They could move their hours to start and end later and then pay the school district per kid to transport the private school kids. Parents would still have the choice to provide transportation. Part of the school fees could be based on the use or non-use of the public school buses. Or sell bus passes...the kids could buy a ticket for a certain number of rides. But no, the private school kids are entitled to use of the buses if they are attending the intended destination.

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17-08-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
(17-08-2012 04:47 AM)Jeff Wrote:  Did people read the OP closely? KC is describing a unique situation as follows:

"Here in LA, this is a growing problem. Our private and public schools are completely intermingled, this is partly because Louisiana's public school systems are mostly pathetic; so, in order to survive, the state needs the funding from the vast amount of private schools which, more of less, carry the state."

If I understand this correctly, the state is in a financial fix where it can't or won't budget enough money to pay for all the public schools needed, and now relies on the fact that many people are sending their kids to private school.

I think we can all understand the purist argument, that the infrastructure or transportation for public and private institutions should not be intermingled. But in this unique situation, as a matter of public policy, does it really make sense for three or four buses to visit every neighborhood to pick up kids for all the different schools? And if the public schools are not available, and the taxpayer is paying for the buses, is it unreasonable to use those buses even if it's for transportation to a private institution? The roadways don't grow more lanes just because there are more schools. You've got to consider the traffic issues associated with a system where large numbers of students are going to private institutions if you're not going to have one bus system. Good public policy avoids being trapped by ideology.

Sorry, this will sound rude, but your line of argument seems to indicate that you have no idea what laws are or why we have them.

Do you know why we have laws? Do you know what it means to have the "rule of law"? These are important things to understand and I doubt we can have a productive conversation about laws if you are not familiar with the fundamental concepts.
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17-08-2012, 02:36 PM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
(17-08-2012 06:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  But no, the private school kids are entitled to use of the buses if they are attending the intended destination.

I honestly cannot guess what you are trying to say.
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17-08-2012, 02:48 PM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
(17-08-2012 02:36 PM)RR Edwards Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 06:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  But no, the private school kids are entitled to use of the buses if they are attending the intended destination.

I honestly cannot guess what you are trying to say.

A private school that is within the district in which the child lives.

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17-08-2012, 02:49 PM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
(17-08-2012 02:34 PM)RR Edwards Wrote:  Sorry, this will sound rude, but your line of argument seems to indicate that you have no idea what laws are or why we have them. Do you know why we have laws? Do you know what it means to have the "rule of law"? These are important things to understand and I doubt we can have a productive conversation about laws if you are not familiar with the fundamental concepts.

Yes you sound rude and yes I think I understand the general concept of laws. You'd be more persuasive if you cited the issue of law that you think is important here. From the OP it doesn't appear to be a matter of law, but rather one of public policy. If the use of the these buses for private schools is illegal, then the school system's hands are tied until the legislature can make a change in the law, and what's the point of the entire discussion?
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17-08-2012, 03:06 PM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
(17-08-2012 02:49 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 02:34 PM)RR Edwards Wrote:  Sorry, this will sound rude, but your line of argument seems to indicate that you have no idea what laws are or why we have them. Do you know why we have laws? Do you know what it means to have the "rule of law"? These are important things to understand and I doubt we can have a productive conversation about laws if you are not familiar with the fundamental concepts.

Yes you sound rude and yes I think I understand the general concept of laws. You'd be more persuasive if you cited the issue of law that you think is important here. From the OP it doesn't appear to be a matter of law, but rather one of public policy. If the use of the these buses for private schools is illegal, then the school system's hands are tied until the legislature can make a change in the law, and what's the point of the entire discussion?

It is a matter of law. It is not a "policy" issue. It would be difficult for the legislature (I assume you mean state) to do anything "legal" without changing the US Constitution (the foundation for all US law). Policy would be like - "classes start at 8am".

Maybe you should be angry at the OP for being misleading?
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17-08-2012, 03:08 PM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
(17-08-2012 02:34 PM)RR Edwards Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 04:47 AM)Jeff Wrote:  Did people read the OP closely? KC is describing a unique situation as follows:

"Here in LA, this is a growing problem. Our private and public schools are completely intermingled, this is partly because Louisiana's public school systems are mostly pathetic; so, in order to survive, the state needs the funding from the vast amount of private schools which, more of less, carry the state."

If I understand this correctly, the state is in a financial fix where it can't or won't budget enough money to pay for all the public schools needed, and now relies on the fact that many people are sending their kids to private school.

I think we can all understand the purist argument, that the infrastructure or transportation for public and private institutions should not be intermingled. But in this unique situation, as a matter of public policy, does it really make sense for three or four buses to visit every neighborhood to pick up kids for all the different schools? And if the public schools are not available, and the taxpayer is paying for the buses, is it unreasonable to use those buses even if it's for transportation to a private institution? The roadways don't grow more lanes just because there are more schools. You've got to consider the traffic issues associated with a system where large numbers of students are going to private institutions if you're not going to have one bus system. Good public policy avoids being trapped by ideology.

Sorry, this will sound rude, but your line of argument seems to indicate that you have no idea what laws are or why we have them.

Do you know why we have laws? Do you know what it means to have the "rule of law"? These are important things to understand and I doubt we can have a productive conversation about laws if you are not familiar with the fundamental concepts.

Which law are you describing?

Jeff is right.

Without the funding of the private schools the school system would collapse. I can see why one would say something like "public funds should only go to aid public schools"; however, the LDOE recognizes both private and public schools in a singular, unified fashion.

Because of this, buses are provided to the private school by the state.

If you say that public buses are only for public schools, then the funding that the private schools provide for the Louisiana education needs to be removed and be funneled directly into the private school that provides it.

If this is the case, then the public education would implode in less than 15 years. Public schools here are already, more or less, a daycare, so parents would be even more inclined to pay for their children's education.

So, based on pure ideals, public funding for only public institutions would be the kiss of death for public schools. There are only a handful of public schools in the Baton Rouge metro area that are considered "good".

It's a screwed up situation, but it's not as easy as saying that only public schools should get public buses.

Another thing you have to look at is the valid argument that private school parents are taxpayers and their taxes fund the buses; therefore, their children should be entitled to them.

Just like any government sponsored program, you have to look at the qualifications. Just because you pay into the program doesn't mean you're entitled to it. This is where it gets hazy. Are private school students entitled to the buses? They are students just like public school students. All students are required to go to school, so is it the state's job to ensure that all students have the ability to get to school - whether or not that school is public or private.

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17-08-2012, 05:02 PM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
KC, I am afraid you haven't provided a single valid point or argument.

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Which law are you describing?

Lets start with LDOE TITLE 17 RS 17:3381, RS 17:158, and RS 17:11

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Jeff is right.

Without the funding of the private schools the school system would collapse.

This can only be true if the LDOE is violating its own laws. The LDOE is only entitle to charge private schools at most, for the exact cost of any services provided.

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I can see why one would say something like "public funds should only go to aid public schools"; however, the LDOE recognizes both private and public schools in a singular, unified fashion.

This is misleading. It is only true for private schools that are recognized to meet the qualifications equal to the public schools and that would include, for example, excluding religious education on the curriculum.

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Because of this, buses are provided to the private school by the state.

This is an accusation that the state is breaking its own law, you should provide evidence.

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If you say that public buses are only for public schools, then the funding that the private schools provide for the Louisiana education needs to be removed and be funneled directly into the private school that provides it.

This is misleading in the way mentioned previously.

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If this is the case, then the public education would implode in less than 15 years. Public schools here are already, more or less, a daycare, so parents would be even more inclined to pay for their children's education.

This is unfounded (biased) hyperbole - its certainly not represented in the laws set forth in the LDOE. That is to say, the law only permits the public school to charge for the additional expense the private schools incur in their dealings with the public school.

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So, based on pure ideals, public funding for only public institutions would be the kiss of death for public schools. There are only a handful of public schools in the Baton Rouge metro area that are considered "good".

It's a screwed up situation, but it's not as easy as saying that only public schools should get public buses.

The laws I provided are very clear. Only LDOE public schools do get access to their public buses. That's it - game over no debate - done. Full stop. Your claim has no foundation in law. This is just something you are saying and you feel it is right. It is not correct and would be illegal.

However, a local public school is permitted to enter into a contract with local private schools that meet strict criteria for things like cooperative busing and they can charge the private schools a fee in so much as it would offset the expenses incurred to fulfill the contract and nothing more.

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Another thing you have to look at is the valid argument that private school parents are taxpayers and their taxes fund the buses; therefore, their children should be entitled to them.

This is simply wrong, as I mentioned and outlined in the laws I cited earlier.

(17-08-2012 03:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Just like any government sponsored program, you have to look at the qualifications. Just because you pay into the program doesn't mean you're entitled to it. This is where it gets hazy. Are private school students entitled to the buses? They are students just like public school students. All students are required to go to school, so is it the state's job to ensure that all students have the ability to get to school - whether or not that school is public or private.

This is not hazy at all, you simply do not have any idea what you are talking about, and you haven't bothered to research it. Please refer to the laws regarding the matter, they are rather simple and pretty clear.

No one "pays into a program". The government levees a tax and you must pay the tax. In a completely different division of the government, without regard to the source, the government makes a budget and allocates funds. A SPLOST is the only exception to this and your school is not funded under a SPLOST.

Yes, all children are required to go to school and they can go to a public school. If they choose a private, qualified school that has a contract with the local school - the students get "free" busing that the private school pays for.

It's all a very reasonable and clear system - other than your misunderstanding of the financial aspects, the legal concepts, and individual rights, I'm not sure where the possible dissension or argument could be.

My GUESS is that some private school didn't qualify or couldn't get a contract with a local public school and has started lying to the general public about the situation. I also wouldn't be surprised if religion had a large part to do with it.

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17-08-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: Should private schools receive state funded buses?
(17-08-2012 02:36 PM)RR Edwards Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 06:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  But no, the private school kids are entitled to use of the buses if they are attending the intended destination.

I honestly cannot guess what you are trying to say.

Me either...it was early and not awake enough.

Private school kids should not get a ride to a private school on a public school bus unless they are paying for it.

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